Allow Bushes to be Turned Off in Graphics

Game Discussion Realistic Battle
459

Being shot by someone effectively invisible is not particularly fun. Nor is it particularly balanced for that player to only be invisible due to paying through the nose (Or grinding for an excessive period of time).

Tiny, fragile tanks already have good concealment because they’re, you know, tiny? They’re already harder to spot, and they can hide behind terrain and objects other tanks can’t. An M56 Scorpion can literally use parked cars as near complete cover, which I’ve come to rely on to fool the average player. Hell, I can take my completely unbushed Weisel and go unseen for an entire round pretty consistently when I feel like being a troll scout.

Meanwhile, large tank can still benefit from bushes by virtue of hiding weakspots. I went up against a fully bushed Su-122-54 yesterday, who despite being entirely vulnerable to my gun, bounced three shots in a row since I was unable to tell where the vulnerable UFP was, and my shots hit either his mantlet or the highly angled portions to either side of the UFP.

460

Then it’s your choice to not use them. And they won’t get removed for you choosing not to use.

It’s strange that nowadays guys in the forum are trying to reduce the freedom and FUN from players, for ridiculous “balance” reasons. They complain about actually fun mechanics, bushes, artillery strike, CAS and so on. What gameplay do they want? Everyone driving heavy armored MBT shooting in the center of the map?

Now I even stand with Gaijin to tell you why bushes won’t get removed or reduced. Firstly in fact it’s not too P2W. And some players have bought it so it would be unfair to them if it got removed. Finally Gaijin need bushes to earn money. It’s reasonable if you want an easier grind, but remove them? No, Never.

461

This is actually the fun. If you don’t want this kind of experience, go to Arcade Battles, where most enemies are spotted.

And for the Su-122-54 issue, it’s still your problem if you don’t know where the weak spot is. You can’t ask restricting other player’s choices for your skill issue.

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462

Your freedom and fun should not be at the expense of the game.
And lmao, they NEED bushes to make money.

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463

I’ve told you how you can get them free. Your issue if you don’t even want to play some battlepass challenges.

464

“They are fun and balanced!”

(thehe im not telling theese fools I have ALL the bushes and hide my whole tank in them thehehe)

They are not balanced at all because they are to hard to get and you can place to many on your tank

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465

There ARE some ways to get them. That’s enough. Battlepass gives you free bushes (or free road signs). If you find that too slow, grind an vehicle event for GJN coin.

(I don’t want to tell people the ways to get bushes again and again… They should learn the game)

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466

That’s a new one. I’ve been told I’m playing the game wrong before, but never told that I’m enjoying the game wrong.

But I do like the Arcade battle comparison. In AB mode, tank identification is a pointless skill. You do not need to know how to spot or identify enemy tanks, nor where their weakspots are. All of this is given to you for free.

In RB, tank identification is a very nessesary skill. Being able to spot tanks in concealment, identify them, and from that know their advantages are, where you can shoot them, can they penetrate you, do they have a weakness you can exploit, all of that is information a skilled player can use to tip the balance in their favor.

In RB with bushes, tank identification becomes pointless again. Can’t spot a tank that’s just a solid wall of bushes. Can’t visually identify a tank that’s a solid wall of bushes. Can’t pick out a weakspot in a solid wall of bushes. All of that information that skilled players can use is denied to them. Simply put, it dumbs the game down.

I know where the weakspot is. It’s the portions of the UFP not covered by the mantlet. I’m a very experienced player, I suspect I know just about every weakspot in the game, and what guns can go through them. At least below top tier, where I lack experience.

But none of that is relevant when I cannot see the weakspot to aim for it. If my enemy is covered head to toe in bushes, suddenly weakspots like a vulnerable turret face, a machine gun port, a crew hatch in the hull, they all become more luck than skill to hit.

Easy example, Tiger E Vs 75mm Jumbo. Who has the bigger advantage? To me, it’s pretty even. The Jumbo’s a hard nut to crack, but the machine gun port is a fairly easy weakspot to hit at closer ranges, which is where the Jumbo has to get to kill the Tiger. The Tiger can stay at range, and punish the Jumbo if he pushes too aggressively.

Now fully bush each tank, keeping the game “fair” in your eyes. Who has the advantage now? Jumbo, without question. In fact, I’d say outside of a hideous misplay, or incredible luck, the Jumbo will win that fight every single time. Now take those bushes and lock them behind a paywall or serious grind, ensuring only some of the playerbase has access to them. Is this “fair”? Or “balanced”?

That’s the thing. I don’t want them removed. As you rightly say, it’s not realistic, since real money has been spent on them. And that’s not what this very topic is about.

What we want, is for bushes (And, frankly, all decoration items) to be disablable. Much like ahistorical camos, put an option in the menu that allows players to just not render them.

This means bushes can fulfill their original, intended function, as a decoration item people can use to spruce up their tank. Just like every other thing in that menu. And now, people can use the mystical, gravity defying bushes, or plaster their tanks with neon signs and snowmobiles as they see fit, but it doesn’t affect other players. That’s player freedom. Like the ability to disable grass in the gunsight, a level playing field for all players regardless of other factors.

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467

Bushes ARE realistic. It’s not only for decoration, but fragile tanks can use them to hide before they shoot. It’s actually not so “unbalanced”. And it only increase some difficulty for spotting, since the bushes color isn’t exactly the same as the color of tree/grass.

468

Yeah, let’s pretend it’s super trivial to get that far into the BP to unlock a single random bush every 2 BPs.

469

That this is the rebuttal you lead with, when it’s rebutting something I didn’t say, don’t agree with (well, partially) and isn’t in the comment you’re replying to, is quite something.

I’ll quibble on the realistic aspect a bit though. Using bushes/foliage/etc to disguise your tank is indeed realistic. Said bushes magically adhereing to random parts of armor, blocking viewports/hatches/etc with no ill effect, and retaining their full bushiness despite being thrown around as you drive a tank cross country at speed, is unrealistic. There’s a reason historical photos of bushed tanks almost always feature tanks in static, concealed ambush positions, or trundling slowly down open hedgerows.

I’ve already covered this, fragile tanks can use just about anything to hide before shooting (Including the concealment that’s already baked into the map and is actually balanced). They are in no way reliant on bushes to be useful.

On occasion, my eye will catch what seems to be a misplaced bush and spot someone who’s relying on them for concealment. But remember, that’s just step one. Step two is actually identifying the tank, and good luck with that when all you have to go on is a slightly miscolored bush. Blindly firing at a tank you haven’t identified and don’t even know if you can penetrate is generally not a good idea.

470

So the enemy use the bushes well… You can’t expect to have advantage over everything

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471

The thing with bushes, is that you can gain an advantage by paying $$$. You can earn it for free, but it is very time consuming and difficult.

You shouldn’t be able to purchase an advantage that is locked behind that much time and effort.

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472

So I’ve successfully spotted the enemy player (Who is in fact not using concealment very well since I’m able to spot them at all), while they haven’t spotted me (Implying that my usage of concealment is as good or better), and yet this shouldn’t give me the advantage?

Simply having bushes is reason enough to hand a player an advantage that relies on them misplaying to consistently counter it?

I repeat, this is your idea of balance? The player who wins isn’t the most skilled, but the one who loaded into battle with more leaves strapped to their tank?

473

Not that much.

And in your mindset, all time consuming things being able to pay instantly is P2W? For example crews and squadron vehicles?

474

Crew skills are also pay to win. Squadron vehicles don’t take effort other than finding a squadron and playing the game, and they also don’t give you an advantage over other vehicles.

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475

The problem is that you only consider YOUR skill being “real skills”, and the bushes are considered p2w instead of actual skill.

476

Things that require equal skill, apparently:

  • Spotting a slightly miscolored bush in a sea of foliage, and knowing that likely indicates the presence of an enemy tank
  • Whipping out a credit card (Or grinding for an excessive amount of time), slapping bushes all over your tank, and parking up in a forest.
477

It’s not the time consuming part.

It’s the FOMO/limited time part.

Bushes only appear in a specific part of the year, where if you don’t play during the first 2 months of the BP - you’re SOL. If you don’t play until the end of it - you’re SOL.

You need to log in every day for 30-50 days straight and play 1-3, if not more hours if the daily task demands something incredibly improbable.

Give me a long and ardous grind for bushes, but not this fomo bollocks.

Give me something like “get 250K rp * tier to roll a random bush available only for the chosen tank” or however the ace qualification scales (it asks for 250K RP for my rank 3 P-51 mustang, let’s do triple its rate for all I care).

I shouldn’t be punished for having an irregular schedule that has me disappear for months because that’s how lab/wfh lines up. I should be able to log in, progress towards the thing that gives me a gameplay impact, and have that progress persist even if I only log in 2 months later.

Right now, battlepass is all gone to dust if you don’t get all 57 levels in a single bush period. You might as well not bother if you cannot guarantee 570 battlepass levels - say joining too late or knowing you wont be able to play for the next few months.

Let’s look at another super grindy game, OSRS.

I want a bow of faeridhinen and full crystal armour. I could drop 70 euros for 10 bonds to outright buy a BowFA. Or…

I could take a weekend full-sending CG for a 1/400 (no pity/dry prevention) chance to get one every 10 minutes of high-effort gameplay that might fail and not even give me the chance. People often end up farming this single bit of content for months - going 1400 kc dry (probability of not getting a drop by 1400 kc is 3% - a very likely event given the large player numbers) (that’s a 233 hour grind btw, assuming zero failures).

But that’s OK. Why?

Because if you do 300 CG clears and get no bowfa in January, take a break and try again in august… you get the same 1/400 chance to get one! That’s fair. Hell, even if you quit for a year and try again next august, it’s still a 1/400 chance.

Bushes?

Well, you didn’t play during the northern king bp enough (I showed up from my break at its last month)… you get 0% chance to get it.

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478

Its never going to happen as the money for them was taken and will never be returned.I imagine they do next to nothing for a modern MBT ,they only completely cover a tiny rat tank you would never spot anyway.