It’s actually not.
I’m against top tier premiums, but once they’ve added 11.3 premiums to the game, nations should be fairly treated so everyone gets their share of level 0 ODL players.
Miserable experience for all nations is still much more fair than everyone enjoying their time at expense of a single nation.
That’s what I was saying, premiums help lower the average skill level of the nation by infesting it with wallet warriors that installed the game three hours ago.
(From what I know) the 2" of Kevlar liner is the second to last layer, the only thing behind it is a thin steel casing that is mainly used as something to weld things to. Additionally, with the combination of Chobham-based armor, Kevlar liner, and then steel casing the spalling from HE and/or HEAT projectiles would be lowered (as for how much I don’t know specifically for the Abrams, but in concept it could completely eliminate spall):
Again, im refering to the 2PL incident.
2PL was introduced march 21.
AIM was introduced june 22, 80UK september, 80 U october.
For a more than a year lvl 0 were flooding germany.
More than a year
If by fairly treated you mean that other nations should get their 11.3 premium MBTs sometime next march, sure. Why not. But something tells me you dont mean that, something tells me that other nations should get their 11.3 premiums preferably next week.
Terrible idea.
Click-bait should have not been added in the first place, but now that it is, situation needs to be handled with care.
Id say situation with click bait is better than it was with 2PL because at least theres challenger 2 OES so some lvl 0s get diverted towards britain. So lets go with that.
I say lets add those 11.3 premiums mbts in a way that would benefit everyone.
Introduce 11.3 premium mbts to nations like italy first. This would not only boost its player count, but would also positively affect arietes as they would be eligible for buff ( and honestly? This should have been done in the first place. Not with clickbait, but with premium ariete).
And then lets go from there.
It’s not, you just want others to suffer for some reason just because you think Germany was treated unfairly with 2PL, instead of actually trying to fix the problem.
Agreed.
Britain is a minor nation and by default it attracts far less attention than major ones.
Also, 2PL isn’t a premium vehicle, so it doesn’t get to research throughout the tree with maximum efficiency, which is a clear downside to someone that’s looking to do just that.
What Italy needs is to get it’s tanks fixed and buffed. Their tanks are in awful state, arguably one of the worst in the game, so adding a top tier premium to Italy would result in bad tanks being controlled by bad people, which is the worst possible combination and Italy surely doesn’t need that.
If they wanted to buff Arietes, they would’ve done that years ago, they surely aren’t waiting to do that after premium vehicle comes.
It was, it was the only top tier mbt accesible to lvl 0s for a for year and and something.
I want to fix the issue. Just not in your way of introducing 11.3 premium mbts to every nation.
If well gets poisoned, you clean the well, you dont poison other wells.
It still brings in few lvl 0s that would go to the US instead.
While true, do lvl 0s know that? They certainly did not care back in 2021. They jsut wanted to get their hands on Leo 2s.
Agree.
Would probably end up getting BR reduced and MAYBE war kit would get fixed.
Would also increase italy playerbase.
Vut other nations need that? ;)
Agree.
That is why I no longer disliked the idea. Making sure this vehicle gets played by everyone from noobs to pros and making gaijin actually understand how bad it is, whilst at the same time, demonstrating that it is not as bad as the community viewed it. After all it might as well become the modern VFW where its paper thin armor is compensated by a large empty space, spall liners and a decent chance to make the incoming round get gaijined.
It wasn’t, if you want to look it that way, USSR had rank 6 premium (TURMS) years before US/Germany, which surely invited loads of new players since they could research the whole tech tree with a single vehicle.
Imagine having premium 2A4 for years before US/USSR got theirs.
No, you don’t want to implement this solution because: “muh Germany suffered for a year, others should as well. After that it’s okay”.
The thing where you said it’s okay but after a year says it all mate.
They aren’t removing 11.3 premiums, so well can’t be cleaned.
It’s not hard to find out by simply hovering on the tank.
Getting increasing playerbase is easy with good performing tanks, just look at Sweden.
I have no idea, you proposed to put godawful Ariete premium in the game.
TURMS was 9.7 back then, and was in added on new power update on 17th november 2020, 2PL was added march 2021 and was 10.7 initially, which was maximum BR at time.
Not denying that TURMS bought lot of players into the russian tree, but 2PL was simply “higher” and “better”.
No i dont want to implement such solution because is bad solution. I keep saying that 11.3 premium mbts were a mistake and should have not been added. Adding further 11.3 premium mbts would make the problem worse.
In no way shape or form im suggesting other nations should suffer because 2PL incident.
This was a jab at this
Not a suggestion.
But the solution isnt to drag everyone down to the same miserable level!
Were talking about lvl 0s. They barely know how to open a game, let alone figure out research bonuses. Kind of people that will later evolve into the kind that asks on reddit why their premium thunderbolt isnt giving them any bonus RP towards F-15 Eagle.
Yes but sweden hardly needs an increased playerbase now, does it.
Yes i did. Because as you said gaijin is rnot removing 11.3 premium mbts. On the contrary, they are probably adding more. So why not steer this influx of lvl 0s at top tier, which no one wants by the grace of them being lvl 0s and thus useless, first towards nations that would actually benefit from increased playercount, such as Italy and Israel?
Only after that lets add those 11.3 premium mbts to nations like sweden, russia, germany etc.
BR doesn’t matter, rank does.
TURMS could effectively research each and every vehicle in the tree, meanwhile 2PL never could which is a massive issue for new players storming through the tech tree.
11.3 premiums were a mistake, but seems like they aren’t going anywhere.
I don’t see how the addition of 11.3 premiums to USSR/Sweden/Germany could make US stats even worse, doesn’t make any sense.
It is, you need to allow other nations to be infiltrated by level 0 ODL players, just like US is currently. This is by far the quickest and easiest band-aid to this problem, which also doesn’t require submitting any valid sources to prove stuff, like in case with spall liners, DU armor, etc.
Premiums have gold background with talisman icon above, this is a simple UI trick to make people look and see what is it all about.
Of course, people will flock to any nation if they have good tanks on offer, which Italy simply doesn’t.
Adding copy/paste Ariete will do nothing but bring players with questionable skill level, exactly the thing Italy doesn’t need.
I don’t see a benefit to Italy after adding top tier premiums to their lineup. Italy has abysmally low player count for a reason, their tanks are one of the worst at top tier, no wonder people don’t want to play that.
Last thing Italy needs is, as you said, useless level 0 players AND godawful tanks in pair.
You literally want to steer useless players to useless nations no one cares about, just so they don’t infest your played nations and ruin your experience.
US would benefit from Germany/Sweden/USSR receiving their 11.3 premiums, not Italy.
It’s much easier to play against new players that have one vehicle lineups than against hordes of veterans with 2A7Vs, 122B+, 90Ms with all support vehicles they can get.
You simply cannot deny that.
I spent time in warthunder communities. I know what are some of the most commonly asked questions by new players. Believe me when i say lvl 0s know NOTHING about how research with premium tanks works and how squadron vehicles are different, nor they understand importance of rank. They saw Leo2PL at 10.7, TURMS at 9.7 and went 10.7 > 9.7 = 2PL better.
I wouldnt be saying all of this if i didnt have such bad experience with ixwa strike and 2PL that it geniunely killed any interest i had in warthunder for half a year.
It wouldnt make US stats any worse, it would drag all aforementioned nations to the same hellhole.
Again you dont cure the disease by spreading it.
TURMS is objectively anything but newbie friendly, it requires specific style to play but lvl 0 does not know that. They see shiny top tier tank and they want it, even if they dont know anything about it. Same would apply to premium arietes. Lvl 0s dont know how bad ariete is.
On the contrary, there would be actually benefit to it. It would increase playerbase of a nation played only by more skilled players, who are the sole reasons arietes are so high and gaijin does not care about fixing them.
Side effect would be that italy top tiers would be brought down, resulting in either decrease in BR for arietes, or buff for them. In either way italy benefits.
I cant, it still does not justify spreading the disease of lvl 0s to other nations without any other reason than to just dilute their playerpool just because US currently suffers at top tier.
I dont see benefit of adding click bait to top tier US lineups yet here we are.
Colors are different so it’s pretty clear there are some differences between those two types of vehicles. It takes you a second to see RP/SL reward multipliers are much higher on a 9.7 premium than on a 10.7 squadron vehicle. This is surely picked up by many level 0 players when inspecting vehicle’s stat card.
Dude, TURMS spam is happening for years now, 2PL doesn’t even hold a candle to it.
That’s the point, you need to balance the nations so everyone has a similar experience. Right now, US experience is much, much worse when compared to other major nations, and that should be changed as soon as possible.
You do, everyone being “sick” is balanced.
Meanwhile, one or two nations being “sick” while most others being “healthy” is highly unfair to the former.
You missed my point, nation doesn’t need to have premiums in order to have decently large playerbase, only thing they need is good tanks.
Also, I still don’t see a single benefit in Italy getting premium Ariete, doing that will fix absolutely nothing.
Gaijin doesn’t care about fixing those because there’s simply not enough interest in Italy. People ignore that nation for the most part, thus giving Gaijin less money for Italian products.
There’s a reason they focus on nations that have large playerbase by default, like in case of major nations, since they tend to produce much more profits.
This is Gaijin’s business model we’re talking about, they make a living off of premiums, so introducing 11.3 premiums for all major nations is simply a no-brainer to Gaijin, and I’m pretty confident they’ll do it sooner rather than later. That disease can’t be stopped, Gaijin’s existence lies in them spreading it to as many nations possible.
Diluting the playerbase of currently really strong nations with 11.3 premiums is a quick and easy fix that doesn’t require much technical documentation (if any at all) to be approved.
Not only it’s piss easy to add, it’ll also fill Gaijin’s pockets at the same, and I’m sure they love getting easy, quick cash more than anything else.
This would be a perfect temporary solution, until they figure out what they’re going to do in order to buff M1A2s to bring them in line with other really popular tanks that dominate current top tier, and to finally give veterans reason(s) to go back to US, thus increasing WRs in a long-run and balancing out the situation.
As stated before, I don’t like seeing higher tier premiums (especially those that can see top tier), but here we are and I highly doubt something about that will ever change, unless we get yet another massive review bomb campaign.
At this point we can only acknowledge and accept top tier premiums and consider it as a standard part of the game.
What have you played yet? ^^"
When it is seen, pretty much everytime (apart T-2(k) time for japanese) :
Russai got ahead of everyone:
all-aspect missile(R-23T and R-60M → no 9L for long/no Magic-2 either)
Mach 1+ (MiG-19 along F-100)
Mach2+ (MiG-21F-13 along F-4C → MiG-21F-13 sits at 9.3 and is pretty king of it’s tier,…)
50G missiles → R-73 (i’m still waiting for Magic-2 to get fixed real)
HMD usable missiles → an ennemy behind me?
Cobra Shit + HMD + R-73 → there is nobody in my in my 6
→ R-27ER → the only missile Fox-1 type with IOG system that outranges/outspeeds anyone, and out maneuvers every other Fox-1.
→ for ground SPAAM : Only russian got ability to track and fire at 2 people at the same time.
Watch the 74.22% wr - better than sweden(which isnt, just ts business), plumett to 22.47%. This will tell gaijin how bad the tanks are, the noobs doesnt matter, the lower the overall kd the better.
What you always have to remember is that the purpose of all these premiums sitting right below top tier, is to populate lobbies and give top tier tanks something to shoot at. Since there is a real disincentive at playing those BRs too frequently and be uptiered all the time, which is a problem because you want people who got to top tier to have their “hard earned” reward to donk on people. And buying the premium itself is promising you the same thing: you’re the cannon fodder now, but don’t worry, with these premium bonuses you can go from bug to windshield earlier than otherwise. And the cycle goes on and on.
True, but you need to remember that plenty of those wallet warriors are actually a disadvantage to your team, since not only they lack the experience, but they often have single-vehicle lineups in a multi-spawn game mode.
If they want to populate certain tiers with premiums, they have to make sure every popular-ish nation has a premium at a given BR, so that all of them are equally “screwed”, if you know what I mean.
I would also like to see some limitations being put in the MM, so both teams will have equal number of inexperienced wallet warriors with single-vehicle lineups.
Right now, 70-80%+ of your team can be made of players mentioned above with enemy team having much, much less of them. Unfortunately, after they die in a couple of minutes, your team is suddenly massively outnumbered and game is a goner almost before it even started, which is a problem many people are angry about.
Premiums seem to be “necessary evil”, but I think Gaijin can surely alleviate some of the problems created by that simply by introducing some changes to the MM, so both teams have around the equal chances of getting wiped out in the first couple of minutes of a game lol.
Yeah mate I wasn’t disputing that. I was just stating my interpretation of Gaijin’s POV, it was basically a way of saying, never expect this to be fixed.
It’s not just the money, because the game has a very diversified monetisation system and a lot of the time it’s not particularly toxic by MMO standards. The “problem” is that having premiums just below top tier both resolves the issue of populating “non meta lobbies” and brings in money! From a business perspective it doesn’t get more of a win than that.
The health of top tier suffers as a result, but well, people manifestly play it anyway and grind for it anyway, so there you go.
Change could only come from the players themselves tbh.
I never expected them to fix premium spam and get rid of ODL, the game would collapse if something like that is ever done, but doing some small changes to help with the issue would probably be fine from both business and gameplay perspective.
Indeed, giving unrestricted access to higher tiers to people via premiums is a win-win scenario for them business wise.
As you said, gameplay experience might suffer but Gaijin seems okay with throwing it under the bus as long as premiums give them plenty of cash.
Ultimately hasn’t stopped people from playing yet, has it? Player numbers have never been higher.
So as always, if players think Gaijin’s getting away with too much, they should ask themselves why they can’t put the game down. Or even just go play a different area of the game not affected by the same issues…
Well, you can’t change the player, so your going to have to change the vehicle, but balance it in a way so delicately, that is almost impossible.
