All ground vehicles should get a second spawn

True, also need Regenative steering and the list of missing/incorrect things for the Chally 2 is mind boggling, but it would hurt the top tier svoiet line up if other nations got stronger

Everyone is missing their anti-era rounds.

M829 (USA) is from 1992. Yet we have russian prototypes from 2023… The M829A3 and M829A4 negate russian era entirely. They work in any NATO 120mm canon (but were originally designed for the M1A1).

Germany: The L44 (Starting with the Leopard A1A1) has anti-era ammunition. They could be outfitted with it. Funny enough it can also use the US M829A3 and A4 etc. Which both are not effected by the latest generation of Kontakt 5.

Britain is missing its L27A1 round. Which also defeats up to and beyond Kontakt 5.

Also the Germans should get the KF-51 since russia is getting prototype tanks.

And yes, we do have 130mm variants. The M1 Abrams and the German K-51 can be quickly changed over to the better 130mm canons, but they don’t due to old stockpiles of ammunition. Technically all of the NATO nations should be outfitted with anti-era rounds.

Modern EKE rounds are long overdue, however I am not sure any public data exists on some of them.

We all know why this stuff is missing in game, despite being 30 years old now.

Seeing a trend yet? Only one nation isn’t exempt from its modern technology, everyone else…

We have L27A1 on all chally 2s, but it cant pen the ERA, do you mean L28A1?

But yep, couldnt agree more. I play air more than ground and having to deal with the Tornado F3 vs Mig-29 at the moment, Should have been Tornado F3 vs Mig-23MLD.

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No. The L27A1 defeats Kontakt 5. Well it does IRL. So it should in game. I have not checked the high end British stuff lately, as I have not played that tree.

Screenshot 2023-08-29 045848
Yeah, no, in game it just turns ERA black if hit. Even multiple hits dont allow for pen

Got any data for that, so I can add it to my list?


Challenger 2 MBT - Technical data and Discussion - #2 by Morvran

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So, kontakt-5 in game. Is way way over performing. This could be part of the problem. I don’t know if they modeled the round wrong, if its because they gave it a super buff.

Someone else was saying that Perforation isnt modeled at all, so shells that should pen, just don’t (no surprise why that isnt modeled)

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Yeah, the problem is. I don’t know if the rounds are modeled wrong and kontakt 5 is over performing, or if its a lack of perforation along with intentional over performance. It could very well be they have it buffed intentionally to prevent the modern rounds from working.

But since the early 1990s we have had rounds that could pen russian ERA just fine.

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Its probably all 3.

badly modeled shells
overperforming ERA
“game limitations”

But yeah, Im not surprised that NATO nations are conveiently lacking the tools they should ahve


The Mig 29 F variant in game, came out the same time as the F18. The Mig 29 F is 27ER missiles should have been launched with the Aim-9M (both are same time frame). Yet they launched it with mid 1980s missiles and gave everyone else 1970s missiles.

What you should have been given is the Panavia Tornado with Aim-9M Sidewinder, Aim-7M Sparrow, and Skyflash.

None of this is by accident.

Yeah, tell me about it. R-27ER I think entered service actually in 1990. AMRAAM was in service 1991. So its even worse than that.

But technically Aim-9Ls aren’t historically accurate. SHould be Aim-9L/I or especially for britain, we should ahve bodge job version


Over in the Tornado thread I’ve alluded a couple of times to a previously unknown British modification to the AIM-9L. Now that I’ve got a bit of time I thought I’d write a proper explanation for what it was

As a bit of background: the AIM-9L seeker produces an acquisition audio tone whenever an IR source irradiates the detector cell. The pilot can then fire the missile in boresight mode (where the missile will just fire and try to lock onto whatever is in front of it), or press a button which will cause the seeker to attempt to the lock onto the the target and then uncage before launch (like we have in game), the latter being the normal mode of operation. In the case of the Tornado F.3 the button the pilot pressed to lock the seeker on was known as the “Target Acquisition Enable” (TAE) button.

The absolute minimum IR intensity the AIM-9L can detect is 15pw/cm -2 , but it needs about 35 pw/cm -2 in order to track a target reliably. It seems that when the AIM-9L was in development the Americans were concerned that the pilot couldn’t easily tell from the audio tone what the IR intensity of the target was; so the pilot may end up firing the missile without a strong enough return for it to track properly. They therefore implemented the “chirp” system into the missile (so called because it made the missile make a chirping sound when locked on). Basically (I’m simplifying a little) when the pilot attempted to lock the missile onto the target before launch the seeker would be repeatedly driven off-centre from the target, meaning that the target needed to have an IR intensity of about 70 cm/pw -2 before the missile could successfully lock on it, as the seeker wouldn’t be looking straight at the target. This would ensure that if the seeker had managed to obtained a lock it would easily be able to track the target after launch (because the IR intensity required for lock was much higher than that required for tracking).

The British decided that the chirp system “constitutes a very conservative confidence factor”, and that it wasn’t even needed because the pilot could use the sidewinder seeker symbol on the aircraft’s HUD to determine if the missile was tracking properly before launch. They therefore set about developing a way to remove the chirp system from the AIM-9L so that they could lock and fire it at greater range.

This is where the Tornado F.3 STF 113 de-chirping modification comes in (a proper British bodge job). They worked out that by modifying the wiring inside the LAU-7 missile launcher they could trick the AIM-9L seeker into thinking that the missile had already been launched (even though it was still attached to the aircraft) meaning the seeker could be made to lock-on to targets without the chirp system coming into play (as chirp was disabled as soon as the trigger was pulled). This modification to the launchers enabled the Tornado F.3 to lock onto targets with the AIM-9L at much greater ranges than other AIM-9L equipped aircraft could. According to the Tornado F.3 tactics manual the lock on range of the AIM-9L was essentially doubled under some conditions (which makes some sense as it now only needed half of the IR intensity it previously did in order to lock on).

Actually that is correct. The Mig 29 we have is a variant from the late 1980s. Around 1989. The 27ER they are equipped with is from around 1990. This would put it well past the AIM-120 service date. By this time we were on newer block II Aim-7s. Aim-9X didn’t enter service until 2003. We were using Aim-9Ms through all the 1990s. So at a minimum you should have gotten those. Everyone should have really.

yeah, I know Tornado F3 were equipped with 9M in 1991 Gulf war, but werent given AMRAAM until 1996. Same year it got the Stage 2 radar its currently equipped with. Its definetly getting those at some point, but I think its just too late to save the aircraft. FA2 is our only hope now

Their is absolutely no way they are going to give us boresight mode where you just try to make it happen. This works really well vs helicopters, and with them having such a large fleet of them it would wreck havoc.

Here is what typically happens in this game. They will introduce something top tier and new for russia (usually 1 generation ahead of anyone else). Then they will back fill technology that is no longer relevant for other nations. This makes sure they get the tech, but not in a meaningful way.

Yep. Britain is still missing Napalm from about 4 or 5 jets.

I have been saying forever that if your a person that runs single vehicle lineups you should get 3 respawns on that vehicle by default. It won’t stop one death leavers, no not by a long shot but… It will remove one of the reasons to do it and that reason being that sometimes people including myself just want to play a specific vehicle and only that vehicle and don’t care to spawn anything else at that moment.

Either its because they are spading that vehicle or it’s just their favorite vehicle. So if they are running a lineup of just that vehicle give them 3 respawns for it so they can play it more in the same match simple as.

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I currently have only 1x 11.3 tank, my next highest is 10.3. I 1DL quite often, with more back ups, even just 1. Id stick in matches a lot longer

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Sweden is missing the NERA and ERA on a ton of stuff. It is also missing its GALIX APS for the 122. Which by the way… The STV 122 can shoot the US M829 rounds that defeat ERA and the L44 German ones… Surprise surprise…