I thinks this is greta but if only 3 4 player left the airfield aa ahould be disables they wont be able to camp as they alredy lose the macht they should be no reson to have aa active when enemy team have alredy kill everyone it kind unfiair to use aa to win a macht si yea aa should be out just like mach cone when you break super aonic should be out
Despite i share your overall conclusion - there might be more sinister reasons why some interest groups did everything they could to drag the US into this war and why those groups had no interest in a short war. I mean from an economic perspective - you can earn much more in a very long conflict…
Btw - the expression “conspiracy theory” was invented by a 3 letter agency those days…
1 Like
I don’t know if it strictly speaking counts as “strafing” but Im sure Tornado Pilots routinely practiced the deployment of JP233s which have an attack profile comparable to what I’d consider “strafing” and may very well have been done as part of a “war-game” exercise at some point. Not too mention the intense flak they had to fly through to deliver those weapons during the Gulf war In 1991
Yeager’s claim against a 262 ”I spotted a lone 262 approaching from the south at 500 feet. He was going very slow-around 200 mph. I split-essed on it and was going around 500 mph at 500 feet. Flak started coming up very thick and accurate. I fired a short burst from around 400 yards and got hits on the wings. I had to break off at 300 yards because the flak was getting too close. I broke straight up and looking back saw the jet enemy aircraft crash-land about 400 yards short of the field in a wooded field. A wing flew off. I claim one Me262 destroyed"
Pilots could and did attack fighters on or near airfields during WWII.
Yes, and those airfields were more defended than WT’s airfields.
Had some thoughts on AF AAA. I think in some regards its too strong and in others too weak. But the cause is the same for both.
AAA around the AF is too dense.
At the moment the AAA/SPAA is concentrated directly around the AF, this creates a very dense pocket of AA fire, that doesnt extend out that far. So:
Step 1:
Increase the radius that the SPAA covers by moving them further away from the AF, and maybe adding a few more. But ultimately reducing their density. This means they’ll engage aircraft from further away, but less will engage at once.
Step 2:
Add more advanced AA AI. Currently AA, whether its near the AF, or at a base, convoy or battlefield in SB is stupidly accurate, and effective no matter what. reality is, AA is should struggle to hit you under certain conditions. Such as ultra low level, or during a dive. So modeling the AA behaviour accurately, across the board, would allow players more of a chance to penetrate it with the right tactics. Dealing with campers or Objs respectively
Step 3:
Increasing accuracy. I’d also add a modifier so the longer you stay near AA, the more accurate it gets (so it would start a lot less accurate than what we have now), this way, AA will eventually shoot you down if you loiter over something like AF. Too many times i’ve seen enemy players dogfight over an AF, without any worries. Happens too often in higher tier SB at least
Step 4:
Give AA “limited Ammo” this applies specifically to RB, but as the game goes on, the AA “runs out of ammo” reducing, but not completely eliminating SPAA fire from the AF. Making it easier to penetrate to take out campers…
1 Like
I’m unaware of airfields in WWII having some sort of multi km death sphere system.
1 Like
Honestly don’t have to do anything experimental or even new, just bring back old AF AAA (maybe a bit better than it was) where it was still a bit of a risk to approach someone close to their main AF (someone correct me if I’m wrong, but I think the secondary airfield used to much much less effective AAA than the starting one), but you could still BnZ if someone was camping the airfield without dying to the 5km deathsphere before you could even fire a shot.
You most likely wouldn’t come out unscathed but would probably only take a couple of small hits if you were fast enough, would likely have to RTB yourself after making an approach. If you stuck around you would eventually get shot down by the AAA so its not like you could just harass people landing without being punished.
Plus, this is a team game. Somewhat effective AAA (not aimbot instakills) + team support, which we used to have more of back in the day, made spawn camping not a great play unless the enemy was down to their last fighter.
I stopped playing jets long ago so not sure what to do for those tiers, definitely would have to be handled differently. I assume top tier jets have to worry about SAMs and shit.
I can understand the frustration of making it to the runway to repair, but I personally don’t think it should be super easy to just completely rearm and repair your aircraft if you got outplayed (or burnt all your ammo away) and got lucky you didn’t just die. Encourage teams to work together more to keep people in the fight.
The AAA buff was one of the worst decisions Gaijin has made since I started playing in 2014. They have improved it somewhat now that people can’t literally just sit AFK on the airfield itself but that doesn’t really make much of a difference. On maps with multiple airfields its especially bad because it effectively makes a large portion of the map inaccessible in lower BR maps (non-issue in high tiers), and even without airfield campers there’s always going to be people that run to and abuse the AAA when they get caught at a disadvantage, even if they’re not necessarily “camping”.
It’s also not like spawn camping stopped being a thing, particularly in high tier where I often see bombers just sit a high altitude and wait for people to RTB (though that seems to have fallen off after the Tu-4 and B-29 got uptiered/nerfed at some point, do occasionally see Arado spammers do this though).
1 Like
Oh and remove mid-map AAA from the game entirely, I can’t imagine anyone that is okay with just losing large chunk of SL/forced to RTB to random BS regardless of how well they and their team were doing and they’re no where near the enemy airfield lmfao. I come back to the game after not playing for a while, decide to hop in high tier props, and just get mowed down in the middle of the map by cold war AA spam (why are there Vulcans in a match with late WW2 and early Korean War aircraft??) while in the middle of a dogfight I and the other guy were enjoying lmfao.
2 Likes
I feel like airfield AA is useless now, especially at high/top tier, SAMs can’t seem to hit fast targets and can’t deal with more than 1 enemy at a time, so you get strafed regardless. Meanwhile mid map SPAAs will shoot you down while you’re actively engaged in a dogfight.
The airfield is supposed to be a safe haven, realistically airfield defenses should be even much more dangerous, stuff like S-300 and Patriot SAM launchers.
To counter af campers make so their team bleeds tickets if the remaining players don’t leave the air defense perimeter in X minutes. I feel like 3 or 4 minutes is enough to land, repair and take off. Make so this policy only applies if there’s no other players outside the defense perimeter, this way campers won’t screw up their honest teammates.
3 Likes
It’s a game. Basically NOTHING in Air RB resembles real life combat operations. So why introduce this one realistic feature instead of f.e. meeting the enemy once every few flights?
What counts is the gameplay. You want to land safely? Make sure your teammates are doing their job. AF AAA that is very effective is AF AAA that can and will be exploited by bad/troll/malicious players to kill and frustrate the enemy.
1 Like
Exactly. It is still unclear for me if we are discussing here a 1st World problem of a few or a severe weakness of the game affecting all players.
The elephant in the room is:.
- How many people demand changes (removal/improvements) with what kind of proposals/suggestions in which segment (props or jets) and are they statistically relevant (confidence level) or not and…
- Gaijins’ opinion about that. Even with reading the forum for 5 years is can’t remember any official response or feedback. The only recent feedback is indirect, after several incidents of non-working af aaa in 2 or 3 updates they “fixed” af aaa quite fast and the last 2 updates showed no similar incidents…
So if some guys are capable to add a complex poll like this:
Poll proposal like already shown in post #92
A) Do you have issues with Airfield AntiAircraftArtillery (af aaa) in Air RB?:
a) yes
b) no
If no - the direct to point E)
If yes - detailed feedback required.
B) Where are your issues located:
a) Prop BRs
b) Jet BRs
c) in both BR ranges
C) What are your issues with prop BR af aaa (multiple answers)?
a) af aaa is too strong
b) af aaa is too weak
c) af aaa is not consistent on all maps
d) prop BR af aaa is fine, i have just issues with jet BR af aaa
D) What are your issues with af aaa in jet BRs (multiple answer) ?
a) af aaa is too strong
b) af aaa is too weak
c) af aaa is not consistent on all maps
d) jet BR af aaa is fine, i have just issues with prop BR af aaa
E) Game play: af aaa is
a) helpful and supports my game play
c) not helpful and not supporting my gameplay
c) not affecting my game play
F) Necessity of af aaa:
a) Essential
b) Has to be removed
c) I don’t care
G) Your play in Air RB
a) mostly fighter aircraft
b) mostly strike aircraft
c) mostly bomber aircraft
H) I fly in Air RB mainly
a) in order to grind the Tech Tree (TT)
b) in order to earn SLs
c) in order to have fun as i like being a pilot
I) I see and use Air RB mainly as
a) a Team Death Match mode
b) a PvP mode (player vs player)
c) a PvE mode (plaver vs environment)
d) a combined PvP/PvE mode
So - this poll would give this whole tread a structure, is neutral regarding the wording and would help to clarify what we are talking about. A problem of a few or for a significant number of players.
I would be happy to see some reliable data regarding how many people are how affected by the current situation in which BR range (props vs jets) and what they would prefer.
I mean exactly because it is just a game any request regarding changes (no matter of buff or nerf) would alter the game play, so if somebody is able to create such a poll it would be helpful for all.
I tried to create this poll, but i gave up; i found no online help or a guide.
You do realise players are usually clueless. Because “playing the game” and “understanding why the game is fun” and “knowing how the gameplay works” are often very different things.
I understood WT to reasonable extent around 2020, several months after my return to the game I had played for several years already.
I understood how the match develops, what decisions people make, how to navigate the environment and this allowed me to achieve top 10 kills per battle when I felt lke spamming Fw 190 F8, Ki-44-II and G.55 S0 (yes, I’m bragging to show I understand the gameplay to some extent and can turn this understanding into results - and I still can’t properly duel!).
Players THINK they benefit from AF AAA because:
- they usually get clapped before they reach enemy AF
- they usually get clapped so they run towards their own AAA
- they usually get clapped and since their default reaction is running towards AF AAA (like f.e. you do), they never really improve.
It’s a self-fulfilling prophecy. People need AF AAA because they have learnt to rely on AF AAA. But judging by how matches develop, AF AAA exploiters are 5-10% of playerbase. Most players are just indifferent because they are food for better players and rarely survive untip late game. Then you have 5-10% players complaining about AF AAA because:
- they are skilled
- they want to improve
- they want competitive, skill based gameplay
- they want to be challenged by actions of other players and not by AI controlled death traps.
Now, there is a simple choice - to listen to toxic, malicious, troll players who care only about their own stats and ability to ruin the game for everyone else. Or to listen to people who actually…
…enjoy playing Air RB and want the mode to be fun.
Now, majority has no idea and no opinion, because they are affected by AF AAA rather rarely and to them the game is all great chaos, beyond their understanding. So they have no idea what consequences AF AAA abuse even has.
You do realise I would be able to abuse AF AAA to ridiculous extent if I wanted, ruining match after match for enemy team? I do not do this only because of principles I follow. You know, what would happen if every decent player followed such gameplay?
It would become a goddamn nightmare.
I often see players who engage even though they would be able to run to AF or camp whole round. I always talk to them in the chat and praise their fighting spirit. And guess what - that fighting spirit (which sometimes kills me!) Is what decides a good portion of matches I play. People choose to dogfight instead of running the clock.
And guess what - it’s only their good will that makes the game playable.
Playability should NOT be based upon good will. Because if players start getting annoyed, the game will become unplayable and the domino effect will remove large part of the playerbase, me included. And for what? To satisfy some horrible players?
4 Likes
Me too. I have zero clue how they gain 120 million € revenues with a product like wt. The whole game is a mess - at least regarding game piay/MM/BRs/etc. - every more experienced player knows this…and found niches or workarounds for most of intended or unintended flaws or weaknesses. And keeps playing, me too…
Although i agree to most of your points - nobody in this whole thread is representing anybody besides himself. This whole topic is for sure an issue for the participants, but without any structure all discussions or exchanges are just an infinite loop (" Groundhog Day") - and gaijin has not reacted on 2.035 posts about af aaa in the old forum. So why should they consider any changes without knowing about how many people are how affected?
The only way to tell how people are affected would be to i troduce some.changes (and not in a form of a bug), explain them to the olayerbase and wait for a month to see how things develop.
But in such cases Gaijin quickly reacts to troll-players feedback, because all of the sudden their opinions are valuable, and they are only vocal because abusing AF AAA is the only way they ever get any results or fun from the game, at the expense of everyone else. And trust me - it’s laughably easy to ruin the game if you are smart and have a fast plane.
do you even imagine how broken it would be if airfield wouldnt have AA? not only would it be incredibly frustrating to die to players while trying to rearm/repair/refuel but it would also be disgusting to be able to essentially kill entire enemy team by AF camping
airfield AA is already weak, espeically at jet tiers, i seen guys passing it again and again without getting hit, even in prop 4.0 battles.
removing AA is not the solution, neither is nerfing it.
so here is my solution:
- AA effectiveness (but not range) has to be buffed especially on jet tiers.
- there should be an area around airfield, larger than the range of airfield AA, any players in that area have a timer, once that timer runs out, they start to count as inactive.
- if player leaves that area, the timer slowly resets, second by second
- if player had been damaged by hostile player aircraft, the timer resets completely, even if it was a tracer round that did no damage at all
- timer stops while player aircraft is repairing/refueling/rearming
1 Like
the only reliable way to destroy the jets, was to attack them on the ground or during takeoff or landing.
The Luftwaffe countered by installing extensive Flak alleys of anti-aircraft guns along the approach lines to protect the Me 262s from the ground
You are wrong and you are wrong.
The only instances when “entire enemy team” is on the AF is if they get absolutely DESTROYED mid map and all run to AF.
There were several periods where AF AAA was non-functional and guess what - no one was strafing “entire teams”. I have once strafed 3 guys, you know how this happened?
Their teammate decided to run to AF instead of dogfighting me.
So I followed and since I was already going low and fast, I just took the opportunity.
It happened EXACTLY ONCE.
And it was caused by a guy who wanted to use AF AAA to reset the fight.|
His behaviour was indeed disgusting.
So, strafing “entire teams” is not a real problem and it never happened.
And if you need to “refuel/rearm” with enemy close to you - guess what, you’ve lost. Get gud and win next time.
1 Like
peharps, but during those “periods” people werent very well aware… or at least i wasnt, and thus havent considered such tactics.
i seen people camping airfield and get killed by AA fire which they deserved, and if airfield AA gets removed i swear i will bully landed players so much until they go on forums and reverse the change .
ah yes, so people who landed should automatically get killed because they had incompetent teammate?
2 Likes
Loofah explained it very well earlier with how he lays out which players want to improve and which ones don’t. You can’t beat that post. And unfortunately, it’s not going to matter.
So what I’m going to ask you is to take the time to understand the game and get better at it.
You died. So what? It’s a game. No one cares about your stats, there are no real life consequences to dying a couple of times as you figure out what you are doing. You will never have fun games if you don’t take any risk; the best moments of the match come when you gamble it all and succeed, because there is the very real risk of failure. And if you fail, it’s on to the next one.
And once you realize where the fun comes from, you will come to understand why airfield AA is so very frustrating.
2 Likes