honestly if any 14.0 let a SMT get to the position where it was able to get a rear aspect archer shot they have thrown as hard as possible. Even just excluding missile load disparity the flight performance difference is insurmountable - which absolutely still makes a gigantic difference. Doubly for the tornado too lol. Only thing 13.3’s can do at top really is just toss their missiles till their out then run - maybe except the jf17 but thats still gonna get flexed on by anything except possibly the su30 in a dogfight haha. Flankers could be decent even with ER/ET and more capable flight models now but the rwr really throws a spanner in the works and is gonna cause u major issues as u cant notch effectively at all outside of visually judging 90 degree’s at closer ranges when the smoke is still visible(which ofc is still not very reliable).
Hopefully we get some more brackets for sim soon cause i think this will be the third time in a row we would have missed out on that getting updated - then the 13.3 will be pretty fun to play.
People could say the same about the F15C flight performance. I still believe those planes belong at 13.3 - 14.0. The missle capability is nearly equal with the outlier being Rafale and Mirage 2000.
13.3 at the top of a br bracket just seems like farming session for the planes with Aim 120 or R77 missles. I definitely feel that SMT can survive at top tier.
Another concept to keep in mind when talking about balancing aircraft is team composition. The Tornado and Mig 29 SMT are being supported by other competitive planes. So they kind of take a support/ambush role.
The concept works fine in ARB or at lower BRs. But at high/top tier ASB, most fights are 1v1 and with the performance of radars, “Ambushing” people is far harder.
If an Su-30SM were to spot a Tornado F3, they would simply go hunting and there is nothing the F3 could do except spam off AMRAAMs and hope for a trade.
Heck, even in the Typhoon at the moment im hardpressed to sometimes even take off without having to deploy everything ive got on the Typhoon just to survive, in the Tornado id barely be able to retract my landing gear.
Same in true in reverse for the Mig-29, if I see a Mig-29 on RWR/NCTR, I go hunting.
I tried taking the F3 into a 13.7 match and just got farmed by J-10As and Su-27SMs last year, Im not wasting my time trying to take it into a 14.0 match. We need 12.3 and 13.3 brackets. Nothing else will work.
Im always getting killed by 3rd parties at high tier. I seldom ever get a 1v1 situation, team composition is a huge success factor. Just remember when the Rafale came out. Any side that had france on their side just won.
My point exactly. Its a factorbof team composition aswell as flight performance. Would a team of only F15C win? No, but when they are supported by other meta planes they can be very problematic.
If I spawn in a Tornado F3 and my entire team is Typhoon and Rafales, our team might be winning, but Im still not going to be able to do anything because the moment an Su-30SM spots me, they’ll just kill me. Id have to sit over my AFs the entire game just waiting for a single enemy to come to me when I might be able to third party.
In no way shape or form is a Tornado F3 competitive without spending most of hte match just hiding from the enemy team.
And actually, yes, F-15C is highly competitive at top tier and should stand a fairly decent chance of winning the match unless the pilots were bad.
Your argument that any aircraft is competitive at top tier because they can just let their team mates win the match is just nonsense and does not justify deleting aircraft from the game by adding permament brackets.
To further defend my point team composition is exactly why people dont play 12.0 - 13.0 on red side. It has nothing to do with skill set. It is only a factor of planes available. The blue side players are severely handheld and when you challenge them in all v all they suck eggs. It would be nice to see them get challenged by planes like the su27 and su 33. To me it would be cool to fight a su27 or su33 in my f15 A.
If you look at the lobbies. most of redfor is playing 11.3/11.7 where they have very powerful premiums like the Tornado WTD61, Mig-23ML and Su-39. Look at bluefor and thier premiums are things like the F-4S, F-20, F-18, etc. All 12.0+ aircraft.
so its the lack of premium redfor aircraft at that bracket, which neither the Germans, Soviets or Chinese have.
Well… Move the F-15A to 13.3 and add a 13.3 bracket and you get the gameplay you want
Everyone is just playing the premium F-18 at the moment, so most lobbies are all vs all. Look at US and Sweden (with the Viggen DI premium) on both teams
There are serious skill issues on blue side. Significant issues… At 13.0 to 12.0 people chose to not play red side due to team composition not player skill level.
There aren’t any planes on red side that have a flight model and avionics model that is competitive at that br.
If blue side had to face the su33 and su27 they would have an appropriate challenge.
and then we should also move down aircraft like the Tornado F3 Late as well. If we are just moving every 13.3 to 13.0, then why not just add a 13.3 bracket?
