Another concept to keep in mind when talking about balancing aircraft is team composition. The Tornado and Mig 29 SMT are being supported by other competitive planes. So they kind of take a support/ambush role.
The concept works fine in ARB or at lower BRs. But at high/top tier ASB, most fights are 1v1 and with the performance of radars, “Ambushing” people is far harder.
If an Su-30SM were to spot a Tornado F3, they would simply go hunting and there is nothing the F3 could do except spam off AMRAAMs and hope for a trade.
Heck, even in the Typhoon at the moment im hardpressed to sometimes even take off without having to deploy everything ive got on the Typhoon just to survive, in the Tornado id barely be able to retract my landing gear.
Same in true in reverse for the Mig-29, if I see a Mig-29 on RWR/NCTR, I go hunting.
I tried taking the F3 into a 13.7 match and just got farmed by J-10As and Su-27SMs last year, Im not wasting my time trying to take it into a 14.0 match. We need 12.3 and 13.3 brackets. Nothing else will work.
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Im always getting killed by 3rd parties at high tier. I seldom ever get a 1v1 situation, team composition is a huge success factor. Just remember when the Rafale came out. Any side that had france on their side just won.
Yeah, because Rafale has the Best Radar, best FM and best missiles. They dominated the 1v1 fights
My point exactly. Its a factorbof team composition aswell as flight performance. Would a team of only F15C win? No, but when they are supported by other meta planes they can be very problematic.
I really dont get your point.
If I spawn in a Tornado F3 and my entire team is Typhoon and Rafales, our team might be winning, but Im still not going to be able to do anything because the moment an Su-30SM spots me, they’ll just kill me. Id have to sit over my AFs the entire game just waiting for a single enemy to come to me when I might be able to third party.
In no way shape or form is a Tornado F3 competitive without spending most of hte match just hiding from the enemy team.
And actually, yes, F-15C is highly competitive at top tier and should stand a fairly decent chance of winning the match unless the pilots were bad.
Your argument that any aircraft is competitive at top tier because they can just let their team mates win the match is just nonsense and does not justify deleting aircraft from the game by adding permament brackets.
To further defend my point team composition is exactly why people dont play 12.0 - 13.0 on red side. It has nothing to do with skill set. It is only a factor of planes available. The blue side players are severely handheld and when you challenge them in all v all they suck eggs. It would be nice to see them get challenged by planes like the su27 and su 33. To me it would be cool to fight a su27 or su33 in my f15 A.
Again, wrong.
If you look at the lobbies. most of redfor is playing 11.3/11.7 where they have very powerful premiums like the Tornado WTD61, Mig-23ML and Su-39. Look at bluefor and thier premiums are things like the F-4S, F-20, F-18, etc. All 12.0+ aircraft.
so its the lack of premium redfor aircraft at that bracket, which neither the Germans, Soviets or Chinese have.
Well… Move the F-15A to 13.3 and add a 13.3 bracket and you get the gameplay you want
and?
Everyone is just playing the premium F-18 at the moment, so most lobbies are all vs all. Look at US and Sweden (with the Viggen DI premium) on both teams
I killed 21 of them they suck
There are serious skill issues on blue side. Significant issues… At 13.0 to 12.0 people chose to not play red side due to team composition not player skill level.
There aren’t any planes on red side that have a flight model and avionics model that is competitive at that br.
If blue side had to face the su33 and su27 they would have an appropriate challenge.
Or move the Su27, J11 and Su33 down to 13.0 so that they face blue side.
and then we should also move down aircraft like the Tornado F3 Late as well. If we are just moving every 13.3 to 13.0, then why not just add a 13.3 bracket?
This is what I would do for the brackets
That’s what support and ambush means morvran. Sitting with your radar off then third partying players.
Okay, So im in a Tornado F3 with only Aim-9Ms because I have my radar off. I cant dogfight anything because i’ve got the worst FM, I cant use AMRAAM without switching my radar on. I haven no HMD or IRST to help find targets. What Am I actually meant to do?
If we are balancing flight models then just move the tornado f3 down to Vietnam tier. It is a modern fighter it has a crap flight model so find a way to get kills with it before the merge.
Im pretty sure the tornado f3 could beat a f4E at 10.7
But the Tornado F3 is NOT at 14.0 aircraft. Its 13.3 and probably should be 13.0 alongside the F4F-ICE.
So if there was a 12.3-13.3 bracket, then this isnt an issue, it will face aircraft it actually stands a chance against like the Su-27 and F4F-ICE. By forcing it to fight 14.0s, it will loose every fight because it is not 14.0 material. By that logic, the F-15A should be 14.0 because it can just third party kills.
Sure, i’ll take the Tornado F3 Late with Aim-9M and AMRAAMs at 10.7, sounds like fun