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The trade off with the A-10 is that it’s slow. Extremely slow. Especially for the BR. With 90% of sim maps being very large, it’s hard to be of any use to the team without a solid 15-20 minutes of pure travel between landings.
It has its strengths – I am not denying that – but its weaknesses make it a pretty balanced threat. A-10s rarely make their way into the sim matchmaker in my experience, but you’re generally safe from them at any meaningful altitude above sea level.
I deal with most strike aircraft the same way – identify (praying they don’t see you, preflare and run if they do), go cold, and go for a gun run from behind. Close range radar missiles work well too, giving them as little time to notch as possible. Abusing energy advantages also works.
A big part of sim is identifying what you’re fighting and knowing how to counter it – the A-10 is no different. It’s scary in close range engagements, but is fairly useless to the team in larger maps. I don’t think it makes sense to move it up with the potential to face more advanced 4th gens, considering it isn’t too bad of a threat to 10.7 players with an idea of what they’re doing.
Edit:
Sim is much more than air-to-air combat, considering the majority of ticket loss comes from bases and completing battle tasks. Planes that do this effectively can 1. carry lots of ordinance and 2. complete battle tasks quickly. The A-10 is only good at one of these. This is why planes like the Strike Eagle are so high up, beyond the obvious air to air capabilities. It’s perfect for SEAD and killing AI, both air and ground. So good, in fact, that I have dropped 136 ground kills in one sim match, with numbers not even being my main priority.
I’m a little off-topic here, but the point still stands that the perfect sim plane is NOT a dedicated fighter, nor dedicated striker, but rather a good multirole aircraft. Ask yourself this: would you win if your entire team was made up of this one aircraft?
Refocusing, the A-10 is a good brawler, but requires a lot of awareness and patience. A lobby of A-10s would lose to a lobby of F-4Es in sim, every single time. It’s balanced where it is and caters to a niche playstyle. Frankly, it needs all the help it can get, and it gets the perfect amount where it sits right now.
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Yes, I already said the F-16A flies better.
R-60M is easily an equal to Aim-9L, and has more use cases.
It also gets radar missiles which the F-16A doesn’t.
Unless the deep strike Bis was changed, its RWR is perfectly fine. It also at a lower BR so it matters less.
Its better, but it isn’t unkillable in a dogfight unlike, say, F-4J v.s F-16A.
You can say that abt any missile.
False. I played the Bis in the SEAD and Deep Strike events, and not only were they nerfed, they were fighting one of the best 11.3s in the game and still steamrolled.
My R-60MK experience comes from Su-22.
True
They are actually, especially any higher than 11.0
A few blind phantoms falling victim of a 10G overload missile doesn’t prove anything
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nah, there are plenty of sicily and Tunisia lobbies at 11.7
So your problem Is solved
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I’ve seen a 2-3 A-10Cs clear out a whole lobby. The pingless IFF HMD is super OP. It really doesn’t require and awareness
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I just used someone’s suggestion, but thanks for being toxic :)
I wasn´t toxic to you, i agree. I just said that the BR of the Netz is ridiculous as well.
Sorry if i came over toxic
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So it should go up because of one map? Please, see the bigger picture here.
I’ve cleared out a whole lobby with a mirage F1C without dying in less than an hour. Should that go up too?
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No, because It can be incredibly destructive even on bigger Maps
On small maps with it’s capabilities It’s borderline untouchable
Eh, Mirage F1C Is also quite OP at 11.7
So yes, at least the F1CT should definetely go up
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It can be destructive, yes, but it takes a lot of time. It can get player kills fairly easily, yes, but its range is very limited, it struggles with getting altitude, and it has no radar, making finding targets undeniably harder. MAWS don’t do a whole lot considering it sits at a BR where IRCCM isn’t too uncommon.
Nobody with any idea of what they’re doing isn’t going to go full afterburner in front of an A-10 or head on. It’s just something you don’t do.
The argument for reduced effectiveness still works on smaller maps, albeit less so. It is still very beatable in any sense. You’re also more than likely to not get bases very often because faster aircraft will get to it first. If you’re talking about ground targets after zones have been captured, those leaderboard messages make you stick out like a sore thumb. Anyone with any sense of awareness would hunt after you, especially considering the fact that they know what they’re dealing with.
As for the F1C, I was talking about the premium one. Magics definitely helped, but about half of my kills were with guns, and a couple more were with R530s. Nothing too hard to counter.
Kind of an essay, yes, but you have to look beyond the 9Ms. Good missile? Yes. Does the A10 otherwise need all the help it can get? Also yes. It’s fine where it is.
Sorry in hindsight if this is a little jumpy.
Mitigated by Flying on small maps
Wall of text alert
Good enough range for the majority of engagements especially if they come at you
By the time you reach the Battlefield you will have enough altitude to do most things even though me personally i always stay Low when doing anything A2A
Hell nah, you don’t need a radar when the IFF HMD It has makes identifying targets inherently easy, especially since by process of elimination anything that isn’t circled in green Is hostile.
Simply put the A10C has Better situational awareness than even most top tier planes
What?
Most aircrafts in the bracket either have aim9L or R60M which get flared almost instantenously
Only a few exceptions (most of which being attackers) have IRCCM missiles and even then, you’d be surprised on how effective it’s MAW is
You’d be surprised , especially since It appears that you grossly overestimate the capabilities of the average sim player
But even against someone who knows what he’s doing, fighting a competent A10C player can be incredibly frustrating
Now tell me this;
What other aircraft, in the entire 10.7-11.7 bracket has IFF HMD, 4 IRCCM missiles, MAW with 480 countermeasures, a surprisingly good Flight model that allows you to win the vast majority of engagements against the average player, 24 fnf GBUs that can wipe off an entire ground battle in just 1 pass as well as other guided munitions which in turn nukes the enemy team’s tickets?
Short answer: nothing
It’s only real flaw Is being slow, and that’s pretty much the only thing keeping It from being even more op than It already is.
Moving It up in BR Is only fair
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i was talking about the premium as well
and my point stands, the mirage F1C Is OP (especially the F1CT)
I don’t want to make a wall of text like my earlier message so i’ll just mention that It’s borderline untouchable purely because how fast It is, and how many countermeasures It has
And it’s especially annoying when you see full teams of mirages that make you feel like fighting against the french airforce
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That’s like calling an Aim-9B useless.
If It was at 11.0 then yes
Except it’s not. Aim-9B is very good at its BR if you know how to use it, and R-3R is very good at its BR, you just don’t know how to use it.
Might textwall a bit, sorry in advance.
Dangerous argument to use — the same logic could be used to say the A-10 should move down in BR due to large maps (not something I agree with). Some vehicles tend to perform better on certain maps in both air and ground. BR balancing should reflect the whole game, not just a few ideal conditions, and as such, should stay put at 11.7.
I think the fact that we play differently is going to have many effects on our ideas. I typically stay higher up and only go low if there are players there, but usually most of my A2A is at mid-altitude and not on the deck.
Not quite what I said, but obviously finding targets with a radar will be easier than finding targets without one. Relying on visual range is very limiting, especially on cloudy or hazy maps.
Good argument here. I have no rebuttals against missiles for this. However, you can’t flare guns. Like you said, I might be overestimating the sim player base here, but you can’t pretend that its immune to everything.
This might be true — I’ve been playing sim for over a year at this point. In any sense, my point of view will be different from a more casual sim player. Fighting anyone who is competent can be frustrating in general, this isn’t exclusive to the A-10. There is an argument to be had that its features make it very good in the right hands, but that also falls victim to your own logic — skill discrepancies.
I guess the overall counter to it is general awareness (watching killfeed, teamwork with locating it if they’re actively in fights, etc.) and all things that are readily available but underutilized. Staying above it and diving down when you get an opportunity works, but I might be putting too much faith into players again.
It does nuke tickets when it attacks, but again, it’s attacks take a lot of time. Small maps don’t justify a BR change, like how big, open maps shouldn’t mean the LOSAT gets a BR change, even though some maps play into its strengths… Kind of an extreme example, but the logic applies.
I usually can’t get above mach 1.17 or so before I have some serious risk of snapping wings. It’s acceleration is pretty iffy and it doesn’t dictate a dogfight super well due to poor energy retention. Not to mention, it’s RWR is very lackluster. I am not saying it is a bad aircraft by any means; it is an incredibly competent aircraft for the BR, especially in the hands of a good player, like you said.
I think we’ll agree to disagree on this because I don’t see us getting anywhere meaningful without getting incredibly off topic. You do make some good points, but not nearly enough to justify a BR change.
Good day to you.
What BR?
it becomes useless any higher than 10.0 maybe even 9.7
same thing as 9B
A missile that can be outturned even by accident Is not good, not sure why you acting like it’s an incredibly potent weapon especially on the mig21Bis