Why? It’s not even good.
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Because it has amraams facing F-4S/Mirage F1/etc?
You cannot remove multipathing and keep 16v16.
If you are firing top down, mutlipathing is ignored in most instances already.
true, i’d like to see 8v8 even with multipath staying anyway
Correct, it’s almost always a guaranteed kill against flankers since theyre so fat but for more nimble jets it’s a lot more dicey in my (limited) experience.
Subsonic airframe with decent missiles v.s supersonic airframe with bad missiles in a full downtier seems pretty fair.
Can we go back to kindly laying out actual arguments/detailed reasons instead of posting stats?
Anyway, f106 9.3->9.7.
I sold the vehicle and haven’t played it myself but gone vs it plenty. It’s a f104 with the one weakness removed, making it too good for 9.3
a21rb 6.7->7.0
Played this somewhat forgotten vehicle and it felt illegal. Literal vampire engine at 6.7, and gets an air brake to mitigate its low top speed
Lastly, a2d 7.0->6.7(air only)
Been playing it recently and even with its great climb rate its poor maneuverability makes it unable to compete with 7.0 jets. It can destroy two bases with a single payload , but destroying bases doesn’t help you get a win by a lot
Stat shaming is unfortunately the only effective way to get idiots mouthing off to shut up. So, no.
Agreed, thing is a menace in the right hands, the reason it’s still so low is because practically everyone flying it has had a lobotomy prior to launching the game.
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No.
Sabre up, mig 17 forgotten lol. Where the hunter?
If the F2 is 9.0, 17 and hunter are 9.0
You didnt touch any 9.7 or 10.0, which are a major issue for these 3 planes now. Sabres and mig17 (non PF) should not be seeing fuck you missiles in just a .7 uptier.
im not going to read all 550 post, maybe youve talked about this already.
Every F-86A/F model besides the CL13 Mk4 needs to go up by 0.3 in br. So does every MiG-15/17 besides the Shenyang F-5. So does the Hunter F1.
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Without changes to 9.7-10.3 aircraft, they shouldnt.
Its just bringing back a problem Gaijin created, pretended to solved, created again, then solved again.
These planes dont need to see super sonic aircraft w/ good missiles more often than they do now.
We already had this when the Harrier was added. And then when 9.0 saw all aspects.
You can basically get a feel for how theyd play by plaing the Shenyang right now.
They should, as they were downtiered despite being the BEST, read: BEST planes at 8.3-9.0 as it was before their downtiering. You are telling me every other plane at the BR that are worse than the MiGs and F-86s (read: every other jet at their old BRs) deserve to be a higher BR than these.
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Yeah theyre gonna be the best. Theyre the meta fighters. But times have changed. Just because the 17 and F2 are good, does not mean they should go back to 9.0
The hunter F1 certainly shouldnt. It sucks now.
I think you should queue a Hunter F1, F2, or 17 with a 9.0 squad and see how much fun 9.7s every game, and some times 10.0 actually is.
Im not saying they couldnt be 9.0, but they shouldnt be.
With current BRs, and without changes to 9.7-10.3 you cant really move them without either feeding one plane, or nuking another.
This is more of a compression problem. The solution isnt moving the F2/17/F1 up in the current BRs.
So you want the entire BR bracket of 7.0-9.0, besides the MiGs and F-86s, to all move down by 0.3br to make this fair again? Because you still have not addressed that they DOWNTIERED THE META PLANES and LEFT THE WORST ONES at higher BRs.
Re-read that, the ENTIRE 7.0-9.0 bracket down by 0.3? F-80A5 to 6.7? MiG-9L to 7.0? Sea meteor mk3 to 7.3? La-200 to 7.3? F2H-2 to 7.0? G.91 R/3 to 8.3? G.91 R/4 to 8.3? F9F-8 to 8.0? F9F-5 at 7.7? List goes on for a mile.
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Could you point out where i ever said they should be moved down .3? lol
The 17, F2, and F1, are 8.7. They should remain 8.7
Im also not sure why you really disagree, and are ignoring “without 9.7-10.3 changing”
I need you to try to read, slowly, what is being said to you, and I mean REAL slow because this is the 3rd time I’m saying it to you.
The MiG-15/17 and F-86 were the BEST 8.7 jets at 8.7/9.0 before they were downtiered. They were moved downwards by 0.3br despite the fact they were the BEST jets at their BRs. This is the equivalent of moving the Rafale and Su-30SM2 down to 14.0 from 14.3 despite the fact they are the current best, and leaving the Eurofighter/F-15/whatever at 14.3.
So, since you do not feel the need to correct this. The ONLY other solution is to take EVERY 7.0-9.0 JET that is NOT these jets, and moving them down by 0.3 to rectify the issue that the MiGs and F-86s are currently UNDERTIERED relative to their DIRECT PEER COMPETITION left at their OLD BRs.
The VENOM is still 8.7. The G.91 is still 8.7. The Mystere IVc is still 8.7. All 3 of these jets are strictly worse than a F-86F-25 or MiG-15bis. Why are they still 8.7? Why do you think its acceptable to give the MiG and F86 special treatment?
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Give ki200 an air spawn or move to 8.0
P51H to 6.7
Spitfire mk 22 to 6.3
Jaguars- gr1- 9.3
GR1A- 10.3
Kfir canard- 10.7. No good arguments as yet to not reduce BR
Shouldn’t go down to 9.3, it has AIM-9Gs.
You would require to downtier the Mirage 3E as well to 10.3 to accomodate this. You could then make the argument that the Mirage 3C needs to be 9.7. This is not a healthy approach.
Fair with the jag if the missile is a deal breaker but 1.0 BR increase for flares isnt…
Mirage is actually a good example
No flares 10.0. Flares 10.3 or even 10.7 but not 11.0. GB tax is pretty blatent.
GR.1A has legacy BR issues from its CAS ability in GRB. Gaijin does not update vehicle BRs fast.
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Im well aware of what their BRs were.
The 17,F2, and F1 were the best fighters because they were like. The only fighters at 9.0?
Turns out, they were suffering and were moved down because of 9.7-10.0.
Did you happen to play any of these 3 aircrafts when they were 9.0 still?
Or you could fix compression at 9.0-10.3 and then move the 17,f2,f1 back to 9.0 lol. Which has literally been what im saying.
Which it shouldnt be. 8.3
the OP provides no solution to the problem moving these planes up will create. You are not either.
Why would every plane under the sabres be moved down?
Do you think 9.7-10.3 is fine and should have 0 changes? Or even more broadly, 9.7-11.3?
You should, but that comes back to a war thunder BR compression issue.