I find the game dead anyway.One life ,trying to fly on a console against those with silly flight set ups and only one life.Seems odd that we have the big ODL debate in GRB yet chance in ARB and a game over in seconds for many.
It’s a pretty terrible game to be honest.
idk about you but I have fun games in arb decently often.
What.
Why else are you playing a competetive pvp game than to try your best and see yourself improve?
And find me someone who has a high MMR in Dota and doesn’t like there being a MMR system. Other than maybe streamers who whinge at their inability to pwn n00bs, a normal players prefers to play with and against their peers.
There are complaints about the MMR system due to it being a team-game and some people lacking social adjustment so they throw the game because “I didn’t get the role/hero I wanted waaah so now I feed to ruin your game.” but those people tend to be at the bottom of the rung and often have terrible behaviour scores as well so they tend to eventually only match with people like themselves.
If one wants easy sitting ducks to shoot, custom battles vs a.i and pubs exist.
I disagree. I believe most people playing props are just there trying to get past them. I have seen it myself in some of my friends who were grinding for the first time. They don’t like or care for props. They want top tier stuff.
Props require a lot of mechanical skills and a lot of knowledge to play well. The need to know how to manage energy, aim and knowing the performance of every single plane you face is a lot for a new player. It’s understandable that they would choose an easier route. For some it’s base bombing. For others it’s suicidal headons. These players are happiest when they get into a headon with someone like them. They know they are both going to die and they are happy since it’s guaranteed RP.
Now sure maps and the gamemode are atrocious for the most part but this is not the problem at hand. Even if maps were better these players would still do the same thing.
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I think you are forgetting that random battles aren’t a competitive FPS or MOBA.
There is a gamemode in WT that has some sort of SBBM. It’s squadron battles. And let me tell you it’s the worst gamemode game has to offer by far.
You think meta is bad in randos? In SQB it’s 10 times worse. As your squadron gets closer to top 50 some BRs become unplayable without specific vehicles that are best for it. Want to play 7.7? You better have at least 3 four-engined Arados or don’t bother queueing up.
Want to play top tier? You better not have anything that’s not a Leo 2A7 as a tank. Want to play 5.x? You better have 3 Tu-2s.
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this is not some highly competitive game
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Heh… The problem is the players…
Grind, quickly gaining SL and points for researching aircraft at a higher tier…
There are players here who are interested in how to enjoy air combat with everything…
Duels, learning about aircraft characteristics, etc…
I would say that propellers from 2.3 - 4.7, when good teams come together, it’s interesting…
Then there are a lot of early jets…
But then there are players who want to quickly reach the TOP level, but I would say that there are also a large number of those who try to avoid the “hell of guided missiles” and enjoy maneuvers and cannon battles…
Another thing is that if there is no experience with propeller aircraft, it won’t be any glory on jets either…
So I don’t think Gaijin is to blame for this… and I guess we have no choice but to accept it somehow… or does anyone have a solution?
Sadly its better for progression to head on die and trade/get a kill than climb for minutes and have a fun dogfight. maybe fall short and die.
Then make sure they go on the forums and complain the insert German/British plane is op.
You fix it by having realistic match makers.
The event when we had the protect/intercept bombers event was great. Having P-51s and 109s up at 25kft airspawn allowed these aircraft to be used as they would.
The same side a Germany vs USSR over Eastern Europe more low to medium altitude engagements.
You want people to care about lower BRs and not see them as stepping stones make it fun and interesting.
I had actually already done that before making my reply, but publicly calling people out on their replays leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I’ve had people on the forums go through my replays until they find a match where I performed poorly or made mistakes and then use that to try and dismiss whatever I’m saying. It’s clear that his standard of an interesting & fulfilling match is just a lot different than mine.
Besides that, this guy seems to habitually contradict me in my posts, even as far as saying that the BI is “easy to kill” because it has “no fuel” after I made a post and explained in detail why it could not be countered by props. It feels like a waste of time to engage too much with that.
EDIT:
In an effort to add some spice to things I had often been flying subpar aircraft for their BR and/or playing more aggressively so that there is more risk of ending up in trouble and so that I can accomplish something before they all kill eachother off in the first couple minutes, and this helped to an extent but then every time I got an actually interesting match I would be at a big disadvantage, which was super frustrating.
It’s probably good to specify now, that the whole reason I play this game is to get hard-fought wins in Air RB props and improve at the game. Not necessarily high kill games, but to win difficult fights against decent opponents or numerous enemies while outnumbered, so high kills are often the result. If my team is good, we slaughter the enemy team, and I get like 3-4 kills, that is much better than usual but still not perfect. The most interesting matches are actually the ones where most of my teammates perform poorly and the enemy team does not, because this presents the opportunity for hard fights with lots of enemies. I really enjoyed getting Ju-288 matches in the Ta 152 H, where it was 6v6, my team was 4 Ju 288s + 1 Me 410 B-6/R3 or Do-335, and I was the only actual fighter against 5-6 US props, since that had a very high chance of being interesting.
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feels a bit like ground tbh.
far to many matches are one sided and over before you know it.
I cheerish those long and exciting matches and ive even come to a point where i thank both teams at the end when there finally is a good one, and that dosen’t matter if i win or loose.
I’m going to rephrase what I meant with “basic MMR system”:
Separate the playerbase into two groups, without sorting by abilities within the groups. One that consists of players that at minimum put a bit of effort into learning aerial combat, and one group which consists of:
- ground players that are trying ARB for the first time
- arcade players that are trying ARB for the first time
- premium players that skipped entire ranks (the ones at BR 2.0 buying the shiny mig 21s)
- literal children
- suicidal grinders that just do not care about what they are flying in (they want the shiny F16)
- bomber players (that actually bomb)
- attacker players (that actually ground pound)
- players that just cannot learn (usually turn into suicidal grinders, “at least 1 kill is good enough for me” type)
- new players
In what way is separation of these two distinct groups bad? Can you think of examples where mixing the two groups is good?
I’m going to also add that I’ve seen numerous times the thread title “Why are level 100s at low BR?” which suggests that group 2 players don’t want to deal with group 1 players.
I, as a group 1 player (and I’m not saying I’m a good group 1 player), also do not want to only fight group 2 players. I’m not going to get better if the vast majority of my opponents fight at the level of CPU planes. I’ve had an 8 kill game recently in the F8F-1, where not a single opponent thought of setting up a reversal against me. While I enjoyed practicing my energy fighting methods, I did not enjoy the fact that none of the enemies did anything to truly counter me. The extent of their counter strategy was just “point nose at enemy”.
The point that SBMM is always bad is wrong. It’s bad in games not designed for it, and it’s bad if implemented wrong. If a game has a large skill ceiling that is affected by knowledge, then separating players that know and don’t know is a good thing. As for implementing SBMM wrong, it happens when developers apply skill rating based on team performance, rather than individual performance.
I’m having a blast playing ranked mode in Granblue Fantasy Versus: Rising.
If you add me to friends, we could uptier each other so we could take things like the F3F or Ki-27 or other planes to 4.0-6.0. It’s quite a lot of fun, and you are allowed less mistakes.
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Playerbase and avg skill are no doubt at its worse. RIP actual ARB prop
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I wholeheartedly agree.
Whilst during grinding events this is way more obvious than during regular times (but there is almost any time some kind of event) which encourages players to play reckless and headless.
Imho the only way to overcome boredom is to handicap yourself to a certain degree by flying rather weak aircraft with limited advantages in certain areas and massive disadvantages in others as a challenge.
But as you said:
That’s why i fly my preferred “low-BR-handicapped” aircraft (3.3 Me 410 and 3.3 US F6F-5) just for daily tasks if any kind of grinding event is running. Otherwise you get sucked in constant full uptier loops due to the Yak-3/ Wyvern spam.
It is optimised to make shooter driven kids happy. Basically all changes within prop BRs were aimed to make actual skill less decisive:
- 16 vs 16
- Extreme clouds
- Plain stupid map design
Just to name the most obvious.
Whilst i am always supporting a substantial improvement of the current (team based) SBMM you might acknowledge that your 2 groups:
- Passionate pilots
- Pilots due to grind necessity (so no passion)
have an estimated share of 3-5% (Group 1) and 95-97% (Group 2) - at least from my pov.
The usual arguments against a player based SBMM are longer queue times and no additional benefits (SL & RP) for kill driven players fighting equally skilled opponents.
But imho you have to consider the following too:
- The SBMM for Group 1 based on your suggestion needs a complete new BR setting. So based on plane performance and not on average results of Group 2 players.
- If you think this through we would see (as an example) in a worst case scenario 16 US P-38s Js fighting 16 Chinese P-38 Js - because nobody with a clear mind would use a P-47 D-28/30 if they potentially face air spawn planes with superior climb.
So as gaijin is focusing their efforts towards Group 2 players i see little zero chance to get a player-based SBMM, we might see improvements of the currently implemented team-based SBMM.
You brought up some good points which I didn’t think of before, but I do see possible solutions to the newly raised problems.
The biggest issue will indeed be longer queue times. I’m afraid there really are barely any players that are passionate pilots. If the playerbase is divided, then we will need smaller team sizes for group 1 players to accommodate the smaller player count, whereas group 2 can keep doing 16 v 16 unfazed. The benefit for kill driven players would be more fun while getting their kills. Hopefully.
The different BR system already exits, in the form of Air/Ground divide. Can’t see how the same automated BR balancing system can’t be applied for Air (group 1) and Air (group 2).
As for meta planes, I do not believe that one type of plane will dominate teams, as all planes have their own strengths and weaknesses. In the P-47 vs P-38 matchup example, P-47s are not entirely useless even if P-38s can guarantee energy advantage early game. The P-47s maneuver a bit better at high speed than P-38s (correct me if I’m wrong, it’s been a while since I was last in the lightnings), which compress at speed, so being permanently above P-47s is not necessarily a win condition, as the P-38s become vulnerable to reversals. In addition to that, the P-47s are faster than the P-38s at the deck (as per dogeness’ chart), and maybe at higher than sea level alts too (I need to do a comparison). The speed differences can be used for energy fighting. Staying up above at all times is also not viable, since the P-47s can threaten tickets if the P-38s decide to be passive.
New team work tactics would emerge too, where teams that have both fast planes and well turning planes at the same time could be more potent than teams that have only one type of aircraft.
Maps have an impact as well. Where do you think people want only top tier comes from? Maps and how they function have affected people’s care to be dumbed down. Hence why twisters aka where the majority go in and the majority never come out?
Unlike Air RB, AAB has certain features not seen in Air RB such as capturing Airstrips. Is it realistic? no, but it can be implied that the strip was captured by numerous aircraft.
I had similar thoughts but i am not sure if you have realized that you described a kind of squadron battles for solo players with adjusted BRs.
Imho the demand for such a mode might increase if player numbers will start to deteriorate in a significant manner and gaijin might focus to offer “new” modes based on a subscription model - but from my pov we are at least 3-5 years away from such a scenario.
Regarding meta planes:
I mean if you think at props everybody will fly just meta planes with good climb, speed and turn - at best with an air spawn - especially if you meet just dedicated experienced pilots as every performance disadvantage will be exploited by experienced enemies.
So even if my point was a little bit provocative it is the only logical conclusion - the number of actual playable aircraft in such a new mode (which is de facto a “fighter only” mode) will be reduced.
You points regarding P-38 vs P-47 behind a spoiler as imho a little bit off-topic:
Summary
Even if i used the wrong model (P-38 J at 4.3 instead of the actually relevant P-38 L at 4.7 as there is no Chinese P-38 J just the P-38 L):
The P-38s will never lose their initial air spawn advantage - you simply run out of WEP in your D-28/30 trying to equalize the energy states.
I agree to the stiffer handling of the P-38 L at very high speeds but if we assume that a Chinese P-38 L attacks a US P-47 D-28 there will be no reversals - the P-38 has an air brake and can park at will at the six of the D-28. The top speed advantage of the D-28 plays no major role as even at high speeds your 0.50 cals have an effective range of 1.6 to 1.8 km.
I do agree to the theoretical possibility that an US P-38 L can get reversed if he tries to air brake a Chinese or Italian D-30 (which has an air brake) and the P-47 anticipates that and manages to “out-air brake” the P-38 - but u need a hell of of experience and nerves out of steel to do this successfully.
Whilst enjoying almost 300 matches (ok 60% of them) in full uptier loops in the 6 vs 6 Ju 288 “black hole” in an Italian BR 5.0 P-47 D-30 (similar to the OP) i learned that it doesn’t matter if your enemies turn way better than you if you time your “parking” attack good enough to have the same speed with throttle dropped and keep a minimum distance of 800 meters; 3.400 rounds of AP-IT shredded several hundred US planes. The challenge was always to get the alt advantage whilst preserving your WEP time.
Have a good one!
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I don’t want to be a smart-ass here, but in WW 2 some Bf 110s captured an airfield in Norway (Oslo-Fornebu) as they ran out of fuel. Even wikipedia has implemented this (extremely rare) incident:
On the early morning flight to Fornebu, Lent engaged and shot down a Norwegian Gloster Gladiator.[32] While the Ju 52s transporting the German paratroops came under heavy fire, Lent’s Rotte engaged the enemy ground positions. Lent’s starboard engine caught fire, forcing him to land immediately. With Kubisch manning the movable machine gun, Lent negotiated the capitulation with the Norwegian ground forces and the airfield was in German hands.[37]
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Thanks. Who knows how many times aircraft with rear guns managed to capture and occupy a hostile airstrip on their own simply because their aircraft were heavily armed.?Making it a variable choice.
i just hate the range between 5.0 to 6.0 as all you fight is JU288
It is.
I’ve played 8 matches today in the Yak-3 and I-185, and not one of them has been fulfilling. They have all been short, with one side dominating the other.
1v1s are dead because you will always have either a teammate or enemy right by you due to 16v16.
Dogfights are dead because the players don’t genuinely care, and would rather full commit in a headon.
Balanced matches are dead because of snowballing due to 16v16.
Skill means way less than it should. Someone BnZ’ing 3 enemies should have a good effect on the match without ending up in a 1v6 they can’t clutch.
Prop RB is quite dead because players treat it like a barrier, rather than a different part of the game. The same can also be said for 9.0-12.0 as well, because no player that actually enjoys the game will zomb in air RB.
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