All what it did was over simplify the gameplay, and make playing aggressive impossible, all while making stock 13.0 and 12.7 unplayable. It has to be one of the worst changes ever made to high tier. If Gaijin really cared about feedback multipath would be completely reverted long ago, but making the stock grind terrible only benefits them, whatever if the gameplay loop itself is an oversimplified SPAMRAAM diarrhea.
Shoot missile, chaff and turn around, shoot missile, chaff and turn around. I imagine it wouldn’t be too hard to make a script play and get positive KD at top tier, just to showcase how “complex” the gameplay loop is right now.
I love when people post that image because it displays:
1.) A sim map where people can respawn. Yes, I know the video that is from. It’s about sim, not RB.
2.) Objectively more dynamic gameplay than “run on the deck head first into the enemy to the merge”.
All what it did was over simplify the gameplay, and make playing aggressive impossible, all while making stock 13.0 and 12.7 unplayable.
Yes, people should not be rewarded for being aggressive unless the enemy makes a mistake. Giving aggressive players a safety net is not good gameplay. In a PvP game, people should be able to take measures against their enemy.
If Gaijin really cared about feedback multipath would be completely reverted long ago, but making the stock grind terrible only benefits them
That’s the whole point of this thread
Shoot missile, chaff and turn around, shoot missile, chaff and turn around.
This only happens if you’re not paying attention and get caught out. I’ve had so many situations where my opponent didn’t fire on me and I get an opening. The battlefield is dynamic.
Regardless of all of this, you’re missing the point of this discussion. Air RB has objectively become more dynamic as a result of the multipathing changes. Reposting the same image of circles on a map does not change that. The biggest issues now are BR compression, the stock grind, team sizes, tree heights.
I never said I dislike IRCCM. I also said climbing and attacking people from above and behind is nothing overly skillful. It is a basic tactic. Understanding your weapons’ capabilities and limitations is important to fight with and against them. With this in mind, you are unknowingly supporting that understanding how to use and defend against ARH is a skill despite your words to the contrary, yeah?
Also, don’t link me any DEFYN videos. I dislike the guy and delisted any videos from him on my feed. I can already guess he talks about how to defend against IR missiles. It’s not something I don’t already know.
No, it isn’t. Dogfighting, while an important skill to know, is not as impactful with technological leaps in missile technology. Knowing how to use your weapons in the best way possible is how you succeed. Fights aren’t won by who is the better dogfighter in modern conflict. You can absolutely carry with using missiles, as long as you know what you’re doing.
Even though I was still able to use the F-16 successfully. People failed to adapt, thinking that they could force turns in full afterburner like they did before. Truthfully, it was the right choice considering other aircraft aren’t constrained by it. I didn’t care either way. I was wrong however on the override switch, it is not for Over G but for AoA limits.
Because they overglorify dogfighting. They think that modern aircraft still turn and burn and engage in WVR fights on a constant basis when this just isn’t true anymore. Dogfighting is fun, sure, but this isn’t the type of combat modern aircraft engage in. It suddenly isn’t glamorous when it’s reflected in a game. Maybe people now regret modern technology in War Thunder? That’s essentially the route they will go.
Better than wanting a R27 in my face, but I suppose you have better plans? Once they merge with me, they are the ones that are dead, not me.
I don’t go for kills per game, I am not that stupidly aggressive. Plus, most of these were Magic 2 kills, since radar missiles are basically useless for people flying low. Quite a lot of dogfight kills as well.
And while they wasted their missiles to RTB, you still have yours. Unless you did the same thing of course. I have hunted down my fair share of Tomcats that spammed their missiles. Defending against these missiles were trivial, this would be no different.
It ABSOLUTELY has to do with knowledge. You act like I just turn back in on some wild guess and hope they don’t fire at me. That is just ridiculous.
That’s the issue, people will endlessly complain about top tier but will, without error, immediately jump to play it the moment a new shiny gets added.
I mean people bring up valid points about Air RB having issues. We learn that these issues exist by people playing top tier and talking about their experience. People are always going to find an issue with the game, but that does not mean the criticisms brought up are invalid.
It’s a pretty long queue for what is by far the most ridiculous way to spend 20 minutes on a game, why in the world are you fighting WW2 bombers at 12.0+ … you have F-14s just spam missiles at them killing most if them, you have players in cold war jets unable to do anything.
And even then the ridiculous gunner aim botting results in a mach 1 jet being pilot sniped by a tail gunner, but when you play a bomber the same tail gunner couldn’t kill the Hindenburg on ramming course with your plane.
And even though the enemy gets obliterated, magically your base is still taking damage even when nothing even got within 10km of it.
And all that for a measly 5k RP in 20 minutes of the laziest and most poorly designed mode in game.
I have a guide for Assault I try to spread around. Pretty much always came first in score in my Spit 24, both Swifts, Kikka, and maybe others I cannot remember, against the F-16s and Mig 29s.
The queue is sub 4 mins, so nothing.
The reward is OK for the early jets/props at 6.7+.
The reward is obviously low as the game is team versus team, not team versus AI, so PvE has to be worse.
If people don’t know how to do Assault I can forward a recent post covering some of this and how to Assault Air in general.
Yes it is boring.
Yes it is lower than PvP in reward.
Yes you can fail due to poor teams (see all WT).
Yes there can be bugs (see all WT).
Yes you can get some insane bad luck with some of those waves and the AI gunners, but you can also solo entire waves and also get the easier nation AI.
Queues 6.7+ are generally nothing.
20-30 mins is how long we WISH PvP matches lasted.
It’s pretty easy to max score (2k for top reward] and lose very little SL.
People just don’t know how to PvE.
Good thing we are in a game, where game mechanics can be adjusted to deliver good, fun and mechanically skilled gameplay, instead of being in a real modern air conflict, armed with weapons that were literally made to reduce the skill involved in combat, and instead make the combat mostly about the weapon.
F-16 was perfectly fine with the G limiter, that was not really the point.
The point was that the game actually adjusted the limiter in favor of actual gameplay, because the “realistic” limiter made the flight model (while it was factually really strong regardless) unfun to use.
No one thinks that, but it makes for SIGNIFICANTLY better gameplay in the video game. If you want “realistic” air combat there are alternatives that aren’t trimmed to be “the most comprehensive MMO military game” with vehicles fighting in “competetive battles”.
Thats not the point whatsoever.
If you just permanently notch a guy until he merges with you, youre completely useless for the whole time, that was literally the point. Sure you will farm the Flanker/ MiG-29 easily once they merge, because the M2K basically autowins against them the second you manage to flare 1 R-73, but that doesnt change the fact that beign defensiove for 1-2 minutes until the guy pushes you and merges with you is not a good strategy at all in a 16v16 battle that is decided in the first minute of the game, unless you’re playing in a squad with other decent players, which just allows you to get away with basically doing anything.
Radar missiles were perfectly fine before, you could just actrually intelligently time your missile and hit 90% of players easily. No one in the entire game stayed below 100m agl for the whole match, as its literally impossible to do while you have to defend from 9Ms, evade trees, and the game has random river beds that are 80m deep.
There generally was MUCH more skill involved in effectively using radar guided missiles, while now using them takes basically zero skill at all, and evading them is slightly more difficult than before (if you actually play the game, if you play in the corner of the map like a passive shitter, even evading them is easier).
Yeah, and when EVERYONE including your teammates (you will have the same retards that youre fighting in your team aswell) do that, you end up in a situation where theres 2 people playing the game and the rest flying back and forth between the airfield. Again, unless youre in a squad, but thats always the exception.
I don’t see how you plan on getting any rewards when you get matched with top tier jets.
5k RP in 20 minutes is bad, period.
4 minute queue is the entire duration of a top tier match at this point, where you also get upwards of 5k.
Nothing about my issues were about ‘knowing how to PvE’ the only thing I wish is that I could get those 20 minutes back and not be aware of how incredibly bad the mode is and that this is the best snail can come up with.
I have the benefit of knowing exactly how, as do many others. Yes it is “boring”, but the main reason it is used is for the booster, not the free RP (no risk to stats, won’t lose SL unless a bug or dopey team (much less likely in 6.7+)). It’s the AB flight model anyway!
PvE modes in a PvP style game are not meant to be the most efficient ways to progress.
Being able to unlock mods to make vehicles more viable makes it an option; it worked for me.
I had no issues in the Swifts or Kikka (I remember the Spit 24 isn’t in the top bracket, still a blessing to not have to grind out the guns in RB, personally).
Soloing fighter waves while others wang about buzzing them or playing “try to get to every wave” is a nice bit of arcade PvE action.
This comment is incredibly painful to read, I had to do a double take to make sure I read it in the right context. You basically advocate we need to go back to using machine guns with this logic since that requires more “skill”.
Good thing this game has a massive BR range where this isn’t a problem at all and fulfills your need for it. Dumbing down modern aircraft just so it feels the same as previous BRs do will only serve to harm variety. Especially when more advanced weapons get added later. Players, at the very least, should be equipped to adequately counter these new threats and that is currently lacking without stock chaff. That is the area that needs to be addressed, not the crutch that is multipathing.
Again, a large BR range already exists for this if people care for it.
My experience with simulated modern air combat comes from a 2006 game called “Over G Fighters”. In comparison to BVR in that game to this game, War Thunder BVR was some of the most exciting combat in jets I have done in awhile, there is a lot that goes on and lacking BVR weapons did not feel like a deficit. I did get an ace in an uptier with the AV-8B+ despite having only 9Ms, three of which were gun kills. Unsuprisingly, knowing what to do against the weapons I was facing ensured I had an easier time adjusting to it. It further reinforces my opinion on the matter, people need to learn how to adapt or just be fodder.
Using defensive tactics against 1 guy to turn offensive at the right moment is significantly more rewarding than spamming off missiles to kill as many as possible at the beginning of the match. You’ve noticed and pointed it out, despite my high K/D, I have a relatively low kill per game statistic in modern jets. That’s because I never go into the furball early, I miss a significant amount of possible kills. I’d rather survive a match, not try to get kills as fast as possible. Which, by the way, dying early in a match is much slower in research progress, even if you get a lot of kills. That high risk does not have high reward unless you survive. Even then it is still throttled.
Bold statement that doesn’t work when you consider the hurdles radar missiles had to overcome. If you stayed low, my radar missile is useless, since most people did that the radar missile essentially became dead weight or wasted inventory. This was a major problem that was finally addressed and made specific weapons finally have more utilization.
Apparently, being proactive to not get shot by radar missiles or be targeted by a majority of an enemy team is now being passive. You really don’t understand a single thing about modern combat and want to change it to what your preferences are.
Yes, and then I can farm free kills from those who are careless. Weapons management is a skill that you need. You acting like the brainrot strategy of spamming missiles is the only way that the game can be played is why I have a significantly easier time flying against ARHs and winning despite being disadvantaged, because you and others oversimplify how to use them. You are, in the kindest way I can put it, ignorant about ARH combat. The mechanics and strategies to survive already exist in game in the form of chaff and combat manuevers. Start using those, instead of making the excuse that you and others can’t use multipath anymore.
That is NOT a bad thing in real life. A rifle is much easier to use for the average person than a sword, and the guy with the better rifle and better optics will win even if the other person is a better shot.
It is however a bad thing in gameplay, in a video game.
That says literally less than nothing lol. Congratulations on a 5 kill game…when you would’ve literally died in the first merge if the plane engaging you had an AMRAAM, being a F-16 launching a 9L (if it was an AMRAAM you’d have died there, minute 4 of the game before doing anything at all, sicne you didn’t see the F16 until he launched and it was a 2km launch).
If we go by games where you just don’t actually get engaged by people, I got 8 kills in F-15C, so what now?
That is not true whatsoever. If you struggled getting kills with radar guided missiles before that was just a massive skill issue (with the exception of Skyflash, which was bad because of its kinematics, not because of MP, and its still trash).
There were PLENTY launch opportunities every game, and they were a great tool to keep people low, which you could then use to outplay them.
The 27ER was among the absolute top killing missiles in the game, because it was fast and you could thus very easily time your launches to hit people when they weren’t below 100m.
I understand modern air combat, I just literally do not care.
We’re playing a video game, one that MAINLY focusses on the gameplay aspects.
If you want to re-live modern air combat, play DCS.
Also, me actually having adapted and still playing well at the game does NOT automatically mean that I can’t think that the gameplay is shit.
