Air RB Needs the Following Reworks [plus POLLS]

Good thing we are in a game, where game mechanics can be adjusted to deliver good, fun and mechanically skilled gameplay, instead of being in a real modern air conflict, armed with weapons that were literally made to reduce the skill involved in combat, and instead make the combat mostly about the weapon.

F-16 was perfectly fine with the G limiter, that was not really the point.

The point was that the game actually adjusted the limiter in favor of actual gameplay, because the “realistic” limiter made the flight model (while it was factually really strong regardless) unfun to use.

No one thinks that, but it makes for SIGNIFICANTLY better gameplay in the video game. If you want “realistic” air combat there are alternatives that aren’t trimmed to be “the most comprehensive MMO military game” with vehicles fighting in “competetive battles”.

Thats not the point whatsoever.

If you just permanently notch a guy until he merges with you, youre completely useless for the whole time, that was literally the point. Sure you will farm the Flanker/ MiG-29 easily once they merge, because the M2K basically autowins against them the second you manage to flare 1 R-73, but that doesnt change the fact that beign defensiove for 1-2 minutes until the guy pushes you and merges with you is not a good strategy at all in a 16v16 battle that is decided in the first minute of the game, unless you’re playing in a squad with other decent players, which just allows you to get away with basically doing anything.

Radar missiles were perfectly fine before, you could just actrually intelligently time your missile and hit 90% of players easily. No one in the entire game stayed below 100m agl for the whole match, as its literally impossible to do while you have to defend from 9Ms, evade trees, and the game has random river beds that are 80m deep.
There generally was MUCH more skill involved in effectively using radar guided missiles, while now using them takes basically zero skill at all, and evading them is slightly more difficult than before (if you actually play the game, if you play in the corner of the map like a passive shitter, even evading them is easier).

Yeah, and when EVERYONE including your teammates (you will have the same retards that youre fighting in your team aswell) do that, you end up in a situation where theres 2 people playing the game and the rest flying back and forth between the airfield. Again, unless youre in a squad, but thats always the exception.

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I don’t see how you plan on getting any rewards when you get matched with top tier jets.

5k RP in 20 minutes is bad, period.
4 minute queue is the entire duration of a top tier match at this point, where you also get upwards of 5k.

Nothing about my issues were about ‘knowing how to PvE’ the only thing I wish is that I could get those 20 minutes back and not be aware of how incredibly bad the mode is and that this is the best snail can come up with.

I have the benefit of knowing exactly how, as do many others. Yes it is “boring”, but the main reason it is used is for the booster, not the free RP (no risk to stats, won’t lose SL unless a bug or dopey team (much less likely in 6.7+)). It’s the AB flight model anyway!

PvE modes in a PvP style game are not meant to be the most efficient ways to progress.

Being able to unlock mods to make vehicles more viable makes it an option; it worked for me.

I had no issues in the Swifts or Kikka (I remember the Spit 24 isn’t in the top bracket, still a blessing to not have to grind out the guns in RB, personally).

Soloing fighter waves while others wang about buzzing them or playing “try to get to every wave” is a nice bit of arcade PvE action.

This comment is incredibly painful to read, I had to do a double take to make sure I read it in the right context. You basically advocate we need to go back to using machine guns with this logic since that requires more “skill”.

Good thing this game has a massive BR range where this isn’t a problem at all and fulfills your need for it. Dumbing down modern aircraft just so it feels the same as previous BRs do will only serve to harm variety. Especially when more advanced weapons get added later. Players, at the very least, should be equipped to adequately counter these new threats and that is currently lacking without stock chaff. That is the area that needs to be addressed, not the crutch that is multipathing.

Again, a large BR range already exists for this if people care for it.

My experience with simulated modern air combat comes from a 2006 game called “Over G Fighters”. In comparison to BVR in that game to this game, War Thunder BVR was some of the most exciting combat in jets I have done in awhile, there is a lot that goes on and lacking BVR weapons did not feel like a deficit. I did get an ace in an uptier with the AV-8B+ despite having only 9Ms, three of which were gun kills. Unsuprisingly, knowing what to do against the weapons I was facing ensured I had an easier time adjusting to it. It further reinforces my opinion on the matter, people need to learn how to adapt or just be fodder.

Using defensive tactics against 1 guy to turn offensive at the right moment is significantly more rewarding than spamming off missiles to kill as many as possible at the beginning of the match. You’ve noticed and pointed it out, despite my high K/D, I have a relatively low kill per game statistic in modern jets. That’s because I never go into the furball early, I miss a significant amount of possible kills. I’d rather survive a match, not try to get kills as fast as possible. Which, by the way, dying early in a match is much slower in research progress, even if you get a lot of kills. That high risk does not have high reward unless you survive. Even then it is still throttled.

Bold statement that doesn’t work when you consider the hurdles radar missiles had to overcome. If you stayed low, my radar missile is useless, since most people did that the radar missile essentially became dead weight or wasted inventory. This was a major problem that was finally addressed and made specific weapons finally have more utilization.

Apparently, being proactive to not get shot by radar missiles or be targeted by a majority of an enemy team is now being passive. You really don’t understand a single thing about modern combat and want to change it to what your preferences are.

Yes, and then I can farm free kills from those who are careless. Weapons management is a skill that you need. You acting like the brainrot strategy of spamming missiles is the only way that the game can be played is why I have a significantly easier time flying against ARHs and winning despite being disadvantaged, because you and others oversimplify how to use them. You are, in the kindest way I can put it, ignorant about ARH combat. The mechanics and strategies to survive already exist in game in the form of chaff and combat manuevers. Start using those, instead of making the excuse that you and others can’t use multipath anymore.

It would be fair to add you already said this:

Maybe if you know where a wave will spawn, but I doubt you’ll do that much in a Spitfire alongside an F-14.

Yes, Spit does not go in that bracket.

It’s all about understanding the scoring:

That is NOT a bad thing in real life. A rifle is much easier to use for the average person than a sword, and the guy with the better rifle and better optics will win even if the other person is a better shot.

It is however a bad thing in gameplay, in a video game.

That says literally less than nothing lol. Congratulations on a 5 kill game…when you would’ve literally died in the first merge if the plane engaging you had an AMRAAM, being a F-16 launching a 9L (if it was an AMRAAM you’d have died there, minute 4 of the game before doing anything at all, sicne you didn’t see the F16 until he launched and it was a 2km launch).

If we go by games where you just don’t actually get engaged by people, I got 8 kills in F-15C, so what now?

That is not true whatsoever. If you struggled getting kills with radar guided missiles before that was just a massive skill issue (with the exception of Skyflash, which was bad because of its kinematics, not because of MP, and its still trash).
There were PLENTY launch opportunities every game, and they were a great tool to keep people low, which you could then use to outplay them.

The 27ER was among the absolute top killing missiles in the game, because it was fast and you could thus very easily time your launches to hit people when they weren’t below 100m.

I understand modern air combat, I just literally do not care.
We’re playing a video game, one that MAINLY focusses on the gameplay aspects.

If you want to re-live modern air combat, play DCS.

Also, me actually having adapted and still playing well at the game does NOT automatically mean that I can’t think that the gameplay is shit.

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To you! It is ‘bad gameplay’ to you. And guess what? You are a minority clearly!

So you’re saying we need to go back to machine guns, since any advancement since (in a game sense) is taking away the skill from it. That is what you’re saying, it wasn’t just about real life.

You also conveniently left out I was not radar locked during this moment, so the risk of being shot at by an AMRAAM would have still been near zero. If I wasn’t looking around I would have been killed by anyone’s IR missile. So thanks for highlighting I have basic awareness of my surroundings at least.

With 9Ms only or with AMRAAMS equipped? The reason I bring up an ace is because fighting people is doable without AMRAAMS, where you are saying it is nearly impossible for average players to find playable against without the assistance of an overbuffed multipath.

No, I did not struggle using radar missiles to kill people. However I could not use them most of the time as people were flying too low to be used effectively. They often stayed on their rails because of this and I engaged with IRs instead except in certain circumstances.

Indeed it was, but it wasn’t overly spectacular aside from winning missile jousts which is what tended to occur often. In other scenarios it wasn’t overly better than the other radar missiles in other situations from my experience using it. It was just the best at killing careless players due to speed. There was very little risk of your missile being beaten to the target by other friendies, making it prominent in that regard.

It’s mainly focused on realisim, but yet also being accessible to the masses. So while some realistic aspects are simplified to cater to this accessibility, War Thunder continously touts being a realistic military game.

The case about a realistic aspect, multipathing, being adjusted to a more realistic value vs more gameplay friendly value is something where War Thunder should focus on realisim. The reason I state this is because there are a LOT of BRs that exist already where this isn’t a problem. Radar missiles should be the prevailing threat that exists in War Thunder at upper ranks. It is a natural progression of military technological history. Taking this away just to promote “more exciting gameplay” would be the wrong choice here. Subjectively speaking, I find it exciting, it feels like something that was missing has finally been filled when it comes to modern combat. It actually feel unique.

All needed for now is just copy paste of Sim EC into RB setting. Game would become 100% better, it would solve a lot of issues in Air RB while offering better overall gameplay.

Later entire mode can be futher improved moving Warthunder from shitty team deathmatch with planes into something greater.

1 Like

I’ve skipped over most of this whole discussion but I’m just gonna say good luck getting gaijin to do anything with Air RB. The last major change they did to this game mode was when they removed historical battles 8 or 9 years ago. This gamemode went from an objective-based half hour or more session where every aircraft type was viable and had a role to a 10 to 15 minute fighter only team deathmatch.

I do agree that the easiest change gaijin could make that would immediately improve gameplay for Air RB is to port everything over to Air Sim/EC maps. The large EC-style map size would mean more isolated fights and give strike aircraft and bombers a role again. As of now, strike aircraft are entirely unplayable in any capacity because they get shot out of the game in the first 2-3 minutes or end up having to idle behind everyone and hope their side wins to have a chance to even shoot at ground targets. The bomber situation isnt much better.

I dont have much hope gaijin does anything because again, it’s been 8 or 9 years since the last major change to Air RB gameplay but Air RB is in such a horrible state to play it’s killing people’s will to play it.

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It’s been 8 or 9 years since the last major change to Air RB, which makes it even more necessary to rework the gamemode.

Implementing RB EC would be incredibly easy. It’s already done, just take Sim and change controls to RB ones. It would fix so many things.

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I doubt gaijin will make any changes, there policy is to induce frustration until you cannot bear it any more, so you spend real money. All you need to do is pay real money or just spawn, get killed by an fox3 more than 100 times and spent more than a million silver to get the fox 1. I have done the math. spawn and get killed without killing anything gives you 400ish RP and 0 SL. For F-15C, in order to get Fox 1 and chaff, you need 37000, if you just keep dying, after 100 matches, you will get fox 1 and chaff. That 100 matches will cost about 1,000,000 SL including modifications, without any boosters.

They can keep the same grind difficulty while making gameplay enjoyable, they would not lose money

For what it’s worth, I’ve submitted an “Economy” suggestion on proximity kills on basis of bail-out kill credit. It is waiting for approval.

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That I think can be achieved by introducing modification based BR. F-15C for instance, pure fox 2 should be 12.0 or less, with fox 1 should be 12.0 to 12.3, with fox 3 should be 13.3-13.7

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Gaijin should also bring back dogfight score. dodging missiles, pop countermeasures, getting locked, lock on enemy, firing missiles should be considered as active.

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Stock chaff, particularly against any jet that will face ARH

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The Stock Tier Grind in this “Game” is the worst Thing I have seen in my whole Life in Video Games. I rarely felt that much Anger. This was the most polite Way I could express my current Feelings for Air RB

@Blanchboi now that the poll has a lot of votes, have you tagged any moderators to see it?