Air RB needs a rework in terms of objective to improve the state of gameplay

Objectives in air rb are worthless atm. there is no point in completing the “objectives”, it won’t change the battle in a single way at all. bases are the least dynamic part of warthunder in the game, naval included. Ground targets are great! tickets are ok, and when directly tied to ground targets or planes alone is a working system.

However, when players have no incentive to go to any part of the map, and the best way to stay alive being to stay close to a friendly, its no surprise teams flock into the center of every map every game like migrating ducks to some horrible dutch beach.

i know its big problemo and doesnt make nearly as much for the effort as preparing to release a rank 8 premium mig21 or whatever but it is definitely worth it for the longevity of the game.

Warthunder has always had so much potential and for as much flak as gaijin gets they have added a lot of really great features and mechanics over the years, but there could be so much more going on with just a few simple changes to the way objectives in rb work.

existing mechanics that are in air ab and air sb could and imo should be added into rb; but its also more than that, instead of having vast empty maps with a spotting system that has seen better days, why not fill the sky with tankers and AWACS, or Recon Aircraft for lower BRs. Give players a way to actively affect the outcome of the battle through their actions beyond killing more people in the first merge.

Idk maybe im dumb and its not like i dont have fun or anything playing, its just that there should be more happening so that 16 people arent looking at the closest enemy at the start of the game.

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Even ground targets don’t end games much anymore due to how much gaijin has reduced how much they can impact the tickets either through reducing how much tickets they drain or by simply increasing the max ticket count to make the ground targets remove an insigifnicant percentage of it. Only a few maps in my mind and only a few BRs as well have the capability to win games anymore via ground targets.

Overall I fully agree with what you’re saying. Air RB needs a FULL rework from 1.0 to 12.7 for it to go forward with any real playability beyond TDM on shitty 5 minute long matches.

2 Likes

I like what you’re saying but the fundamental issue is that in a mode with NO RESPAWNS, the fastest way to win will always be by shooting down the entire enemy team.

So the entire mode has to be reworked before we even consider alternative ways of winning.

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From a holistic pov any objectives added to shooter game are just created to enforce or facilitate player interactions.

General view on Air RB:

  1. I share your general view on things, but imho the mode Air RB is rotten to the core and irrecoverably damaged.

  2. Without a restart (maybe Air RB+) designed to fulfil the requirements of designated pilots - and simply excluding all non-pilots from participating by adding complexity of game play whilst focusing on tactics, strategies and the passion of flying for all involved plane classes a rework makes (at least from my perspective) no sense.

  3. As long as the mode is flooded with non-pilots due to little to zero existing entry barriers regarding skill and experience a rework makes no sense. The majority will still follow the path gaijin has determined - just by setting the awards / rewards of SL/RP like currently implemented.

  4. Imho gaijin tries to satisfy shooter and purely grind driven players and sacrifices the needs of players looking for much more demanding game play. This is obviously successful regarding the total number of (new) players, but detrimental for the commitment of long term players.

  5. Reducing complexity to satisfy minors with access to credit cards might make more economic sense for gaijin, but all the measure in the last years are driving long-term players away from wt.

  6. It simply makes no sense that skill based on years of experience (game play, map know-how, game mechanics) is rendered almost useless due to 16 vs 16 and unbalanced teams, maps & lobbies.

  7. If you compare certain matches from today with matches on the same / similar maps some years ago you see the skill drain. So matches you would have lost years ago as you fought way more skilled opponents are now victories and vice versa.

  8. Today most matches are just random results, either based on the numbers game and/or wrong decision making on both sides. This makes the eternal strive for long-term players to play the Perfect Match incredibly hard.

  9. I have zero fun if the enemy team allows me a cheap win or if i play 2 vs 8 after 6 minutes and lose without any realistic chance to influence the outcome.

Mate! We had this in the past - and we still have a different understanding about the approach playing the game mode Air RB :-)

  • There is nothing wrong with your view, but imho the number of respawns and emphasising the way to fastest ways to win have nothing to do why others might play Air RB.

  • The main point of long-term players (at least the guys i chat with) is to have fun and to use gained skill / experience against equally skilled players embedded within a game set-up that demands strategy and tactics whilst having multiple options to win and multiple options which game class you want to use today.

  • Currently Air RB offers these options just very late game when the lobby is filled with just a few guys. So in other words the really interesting games are the very long matches fighting the enemy team on equal terms (or even outnumbered like hell) and you are able to decide a match with skill and/or luck.

The passion of flying is not connected to flying a single engine prop fighter only. A rework of Air RB in general (or in this case game objectives) needs to consider the needs of all involved plane classes - simply because we have already a fighter dominated game mode.

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And I agree with you on some things, but I don’t think your view is practical. It seems to me most players would rather grind than have a good time and maybe learn a thing or two.

Just the other day on a WT-focused discord, I told someone that if they want to improve at Ground RB (after they complained about GRB), they should move to a lower BR (say, 2.0) where it is easier to learn because the players are newer. They told me no because it would slow down their grind, instead of seeing it as a future investment into their skills.

That aside…

I have to say you’re definitely in the minority here, especially if we consider the wider playerbase. Otherwise planes like the XP-50 and A-10/Su25 wouldn’t be so popular.

And I’m not saying that wanting other playstyles and aircraft to be viable is bad, but in the current state of Air RB playing them makes little to no sense outside of the rare cases where you can achieve a - quite boring IMO - win on tickets.

I agree there, those are the most interesting matches, only tainted by the common occurrence of airfield campers and having to dig them out by handing them a winning position on a silver platter.

100%, though we already kinda have this - Air Sim EC is quite generous on attackers and bombers, in part because you can’t just kill your way to a victory.

Air RB is a solid mode as-is. The only meaningful changes I’d want to see are a slight spreading out of existing AI targets, and the ability to bring a lineup.

Not multiple respawns, definitely not, but being able to swap aircraft while at the airfield, in the same way we can currently swap loadouts. This would allow better use of more niche aircraft (such as naval aircraft or torpedo bombers in your lineup for when you get a water map) as well as being able to respond to changing match conditions (switching to something more useful to however the late-match situation has unfolded).

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Fully agree with both points - but this is exactly the underlying issue:

  1. Non- pilots flood the game mode to grind SL/RPs
  2. Passionate pilots trying to enjoy the here and now are very rare

…and the majority of those non-pilots ruin the game as gaijin caters those guys with this TDM/base bombing nonsense, which lead to the current state of Air RB:

  • A plain shooter/grinding mode without any real challenges and very limited options to play the game.

Therefore we have this mess, which makes everything else than a fighter borderline useless. You described this perfectly here:

Next:

A very rare example of a Perfect match:

Playing 1 vs 3 in an inferior plane against 3 fighters in a hopeless ticket disadvantage - and winning by killing all of them - ending the match after 21 minutes with my plane engulfed in flames :-) epic…

Seriously?

Joining 3 hour sessions (if you just want to play 1 or 2 matches in Air RB) which are imho most of the time one sided and you see guys in stuff like B-25s abusing their aiming and spotting advantage via 3rd person view of their turrets?

This mode is for sim enthusiasts interesting. But the main advantages of Air RB are based on the fact that the usual cheaters can’t use hacks to spot you (thanks to markers) and the that game play is (at least in theory) way more dynamic.

Regarding quite generous:

Seriously II? Current prop Air RB is quite generous for pure fighters - every non-fighter which is a challenging target is “up BRed” and/or nerfed - just based on the demands of the shooter guys.

In any case: Have a good one!

PS: Why did you stop playing wt?

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I just today posted a suggestion to bring back Air RBEC for all BRs which awaiting moderator stamp.

Idea is to keep Air RB as it is mainly dominated by fighters and keep it as quick in out game mode. Where RBEC would cater towards more objective oriented players who do not mind flying 15 minutes to objective and back to base.

Sim EC is there but barrier to entry is steep. Yes there was RBEC in the past but Warthunder was young back then with way smaller playerbase, peak player count was something like 50k back then (if even that).

It would solve a lot of issues. Bombers would become better same as in Sim EC. Attackers would stop being suicidal. Fighters would fight over cap zones or do interceptions. Laser guided bombs would be useful outside of Ground RB. BVR could be a thing. Hell you could even allow helicopters in there to spice things up.

Of course I do not mean single spawn like we have now with EC maps. Just same as Sim EC, spawn how many times you want and try to win a game over 3h time. Jump in when you want, jump out when you want.

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We just need RB EC. RB for the grind and EC to actually enjoy the planes. Big map with AWACS and targets to hit that actally change the end of the match. Mixed maps. The Persian Gulf. Takeoff from the land or from a carrier if u have an A6, F14, F/A 18 etc etc and go and hit targets. Engaged in BVR ,WVR or just go to hit targets. As simple as that. Take the sim maps make the mechanics RB style add some new AI and radar mechanics and thats it 👍

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When test flying a Russian plane, there is a fully modelled steam train with carriages that chugs along the tracks - why isn’t that a target in air RB?

When test flying an American plane, there are a bunch of aircraft sitting on the runways at Pearl Harbor - they would be really fun strafing targets in air RB.

We’ve had the same boring ground targets for 10 years.

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It used to be like that to some degree.

Back in the day maps where more like scenarios without mixed matchmaker. On Britain map it would be Britain vs Germans. On Krymsk it was Russia vs Germany. On some maps there were scout planes circling at high altitude that you was able to hunt down. It was not like you describe it but it was kind of there.

However Gajin instead of leaning hard into that catered to community that wanted Air RB turned into what we have today. Team deathmatch where whoever kills other teams faster wins.

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I believe there’s a moving train on the German test flight too. Seems really strange to not have this in actual maps, plus all that other stuff they’ve recently added to liven up other test flights (like the US one, as you mentioned).

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There is moving train on Smolensk

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…what?
confus

Ok…

First part - the are way too many tankers / pure grinders without skill, talent or interest in learning how to fly. They are there because economy in Ground RB is bad and they need SL or RP to play tanks and supporting CAS. They are not interested in Air RB.
You see those point and click fighter noobs preferred trading in headons, whilst the other guys fly straight to a base and get shot down whilst being in bombardier view.

Second part - as long as on average only max 10-20% of pure Air RB players and designated pilots are in a match - it is pointless trying to optimize Air RB, because the other 80-80% will still play as before: Spawn, bomb-drop or headon, die, repeat…in an infinite loop.
Just based on the rewards gaijin uses to steer the game, so if stupid base bombing gives you a similar SL income like killing an enemy aircraft, but 3 times the amount of RP, you will see players on selfish grinding tours.

So if you see that Air RB was reduced to a shooter / base bombing / grinding vehicle to get somewhere else it makes no sense to optimize the game mode - as the game mode right now is optimized to be enjoyed by noobs and mediocre pilots only.

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I cannot stand what upper tier Air RB has turned into.

Keeping the map setups while increasing playercount to 16 vs 16 has to be the most aweful change i’ve seen to the game since the beta. Completely killed my interest in Air RB.

Air RB is very clearly designed around grinders. Excessive auto ticket bleed encourages short matches. Players are encouraged to mindlessly bomb bases. Nobody pays any attention to the meaningless objectives.

The AI is garbage. I cant tell you how many times ive watched an AI yak 38 somehow achieve mach 3+ on the deck or how many times I’ve watched AI planes slam into the ground.

There’s just no desire by Gaijin to invest much into game mode design.

Every aspect of the game caters to brand new premium players.

Hopefully it gets better but i wouldnt hold my breath.

3 Likes

Swapping planes mid game seems impractical and is an idea I personally do not want added to rb anytime soon ngl; i identify which planes are in the lobby early on and it contributes to the way I play each game. I wouldn’t want someone to be able to abuse me correctly preparing for one enemy by spawning a tomcat instead of an f16 or something yk. i also don’t think everything in air RB is “fine” my guy you sort of ignored the stuff I brought up instead of countering it with your own perception or thought process. Why do you thing the furball meta is good compared to the dynamic fights you encounter once in a while once players have died off and seperated?

Tankers means Air-Tankers as in AI planes that let you refuel in the air but can be shot down as an objective by the enemy

It isn’t pointless to try its quite literally pointless to just accept a bad state of objective guidance

why not have several objectives like this though fill the map with activity and give players a reason to fly anywhere but dead center