AH-64d and longbow hellfires

Machinery of War Discussion Helicopter
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So now that russian CAS has gotten even worse with the addition of the Su-34 can we FINALLY get longbow hellfires? Because its gotten really bad at this point. With the Su-34, Su-25sm3, Su-39, Ka-50, Ka-52 in the game the other nations need something to even the CAS gap. And not to mention the Pantsir still dominating SPAA meaning you can’t spawn in planes to counterplay without being instantly targeted.

But in case you aren’t convinced let me list some stats for the longbow hellfire and some current munitions in game.

AGM-114L: AH-64d
Range: 4.9 mi
Tracking method: MMW+IOG
Speed: Mach 1.3
Amount carried: 16 (I would settle for less if properly implemented)

PARS 3 LR: Tiger UHT
Range: 4.35 mi
tracking method: IR
Speed: Mach 0.9
Amount carried: 8

9k127 Vikhr: Ka-50, Ka-52, Mi-28nm, Su-25t, Su-25sm3, Su-39
Range: 4.97 mi
Tracking method: laser beam riding
Speed: Mach 1.7
Amount carried: 12

Kh-38mt: Su-25sm3, Su-34
Range: 25 mi
Tracking method: IR+IOG
Speed: Mach 2.2
Amount carried: 4 (Su-25sm3) 6 (Su-34)

Let me know what you guys think about it and keep the discussion civil, i’ve seen what usually happens to Abrams and Apache threads.

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I dont think the argument of “cas is getting really bad so why not make it worse” is good.

This is why it isnt being added. The game cant handle lock on after launch with radar.

They need to properly model ground clutter and anti-radar smoke.

5 Likes
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Oh no! Su-34 is as powerful as my F-16C! The horror!
Pantsir is not dominating anything other than dying to CAS.
Ka-52 is chronically average for helicopters where the meta is long-range laser and fire & forget.

No, undefeatable ARH AGMs aren’t needed nor wanted, and I guarantee I like ARH AGMs more than you do.

AH-64E can come with SPIKE missiles instead, then the Soviets have the worst [marginally] helicopters in the game after that addition.

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Not the issue. Its purely and soley balance. was commented on in the Brimstone post

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AGM-114L has no other guidance method, thus that post is irrelevant.

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That is what i meant by that. We dont have the mechanics/modelling needed for it to be balanced.

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Its entirely relevant. The post is about mmV seeker on the Brimstones and specifically mentions AGM-114L as another mmV seeker

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Ah i see.

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Which is irrelevant for this topic.
He’s asking for AGM-114L, not Brimstone.
AGM-114L only has radar guidance, Brimstone has multi-mode.

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Right…

And what is missing from the Brimstone?

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I maybe worded it a bit (probably more than just a bit) wrong but the point is that either they make other SPAA in line with the pantsir or they buff other CAS to be in line with the new stuff in game. And also the longbow hellfires only have 5 mile range, which is well within range of all SPAA systems from 11.0 to 12.0. The Kh-38mt has 5 times that at 25 miles. And what’s the difference if it was IR vs if it was MMW? Both would give zero indication that you are about to die.

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We need better spaa. Stronger cas just makes it worse.

IR requires a lock to launch. The MMW on the hellfire does not. This means that the heli can sit behind a hill, fire a longbow at spawn, and the longbow will lock on its own. The IR requires the heli to at least pop up and get a lock.

MMW also will ignore smoke and tress/bushes.

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I dont know if the Hellfires have the same true LOAL that the Brimstones have, but they can certainly be locked onto a target using the radar which only requires minimal peeking to use

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1st: I don’t have the F-16C so I can’t speak for that, but usually whenever I see an F-16C it either gets smoked by a Pantsir or some jet.
2nd: The only way I have found me and my play group can kill a good Pantsir player with CAS is just by overwhelming them or ambushing them.
3rd: The amount of times I have direct impacted a Ka-50/52 with M830a1, M829a2, a AIM-7m, and it doesn’t kill it is insane. Probably dozens of times at this point.
4th: The E variant of the apache mainly upgraded its engines and the radar’s ability to track sea targets. In game only the engine upgrades matter as the radar has no purpose without the AGM-114L or other radar guided missiles, which is for the former is not in game and for the latter it is not equipped with.

Or maybe, just maybe if you don’t want other CAS vehicles to get improved capabilities they could add or improve SPAA that actually can compete with the Pantsir.

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From what i’ve seen they don’t have LOAL, they at least have to be locked on to fire before the radar in the hellfire takes over.

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1- Then that pilot is flying their F-16C like a drone instead of like an F-16.
2- You go to 9000 meters, and drop ordnance on them.
3- Okay. Anecdotes aren’t helpful to the fact Kamovs still fire very, very dumb AGMs.
4- AH-64E has SPIKE and other AGM integration.

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Yep, that tracks with what I know. I dont know about JAGM though.

In either case. I reckon ARH AGMs, such as Hellfire or JAGM will make an appearance with the AH-64Es if/when they are added. In the meantime. Im hoping for some fixes for the Hellfires we already have.

Unless they just give AGM-114L Placeholder Spike seekers

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We shouldn’t have even gotten CAS with FnF munitions that can engage multiple targets at once until SPAAs got the same treatment.

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Please no. I want weapons to be fully added once the game is ready rather than give ahistorical lobotomized versions because people keep begging for new toys.

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At which point the Pantsir will be powercrept so hard it will be as useful as an ADATS, and Gaijin won’t have added any better SPAA to any nation because they’re afraid of a redo of the Pantsir controversy.