AGS and 2S25M changes are "interesting"

So get this, gaijin gave the AGS M833 ammo which has a maximum pen of 395mm of pen and raised the BR twice from 10.3 to 11.0.

In the same update the 2S25M Sprut also got an ammo buff getting 3BM60 which has 580mm of pen and the BR wasn’t changed at all and still sits at 10.0.

Now I’m not saying the vehicles are the same, or should be at the same BR, I’m just confused why the American tank had to have its BR raised twice with a round addition that only gave it like 20mm more armor pen over M774. Meanwhile the Sprut went from 3BM46 (532mm of pen) to 3BM60 (580mm of pen) an increase of 48mm of pen and the BR wasn’t changed at all.

You’ll have to excuse me, but what the hell is this?

The AGS now gets to fight the most advanced tanks in the game and it doesn’t even get M900 which has 522mm of pen which is still LESS pen than what the Sprut has at a full BR lower.


Didn’t they have a rule that they wouldn’t do large BR increases like that ?

if i’ve learned anything from gaijin is that they dont follow any rules. or promises.


AGS is really mobile (31HP/t+), pretty small and has a ridiculously small hull-down profile because of it’s design. On top of that, it has a 5s autoloaded gun which is surely really nice.

That being said, it should excel in the early game, getting to spots first and getting to the side of some unsuspecting enemies, quickly decimating them with that 5s reload. Only if we had maps that playstyle can be achieved on the regular…


AGS has a crewless turret and can fire effectively from behind cover.

The 2S25M is a tinder box.

Both excel at flanking and sniping. One can fire effectively from behind cover, the other must rely on concealment.

Should the 2S25M move up in BR? Sure. The entire 9.0-11.0 bracket should all be moved up by ~0.7 minimum to decompress after the traffic jam Gaijin has created by moving everything at 8.3 to 8.7 and 8.7 to 9.0

Obviously you can’t do this without raising cap BR to 12.7 but this should have been done when Rank VIII was added. Gaijin’s failure to do this is reflective of their game knowledge and general care for the balance of War Thunder.


Simple - One is Russian. One isn’t.

See also 2S38 vs HSTVL. They can’t help themselves.

‘One rule for thee but not for me’ as the saying goes.


Sprut in all aspects worse than ags. Still not the best tank for its br


Are you an athlete who wants to win against the referee?

just typical russian bias, of course @stona @Smin1080p isn’t going to respond or give us a reason why russian vehicles always receive new ammo, and never get up tiered.


The crew will still die if the turret is hit. He 1 shots the vehicle and the ags is a giant box with commander sights.

Yes it’s called over pressure it’s a mechanic all vehicles need to deal with.

Russians get handholded again.

Considering no one is willingly running around with HE/HEAT loaded in, AGS is a much harder target to deal with in a hull down position.

2S25M’s pros when compared to AGS are basically rounds and thermals, meanwhile it’s cons are worse mobility, reload speed, gun handling, gun depression and the fact it has a much larger and manned turret that will get spotted much easier.
Based on this, I highly doubt those two should share the same BR.


what? russians have HE rounds at top tier and have always used them.

literally hitting the turret and the commander dies

Your screenshots show shots penetrating the roof of the vehicle, not the turret.

Two of your screenshots even show your crew surviving a low shot to the roof lol


You have some issues understanding my sentences.
I was saying that people will run around with darts loaded, thus will have to spend some time to load HE/HEAT for overpressure mechanic to work.


So a worse tank being at lower BR than the better one is apearently russian bias.


the screenshots are all the turret, the last screenshot is literally the back of the gun.

Yes and your crew lived.