since i am the context provider allow me to make it clear that the Kh-38 is OP with regards to everything. not just cas, not just spaa. everything.
no idea where you pulled that out of. theres no relation to this deduction from the initial argument.
because lets face it, you misunderstood. CAS is OP. period. but the most OP AGM is the Kh-38.
yeah… if the reader never bothered to really understand nor fully read my points.
one of. not the most.
most powerful means it is above every other platform. you yourself state,
which is exactly what it means
and guess what, we have time and ample opportunity to intercept all other munitions other than the Kh-38 at long or short range.
SPAA being neutered is another topic. there are other places to discuss that. i myself have a thread about it. but not this one.
whataboutism is not the way forward. because you cant say what about spaa being weak. no. im talking about the Kh-38. not SPAA.
then you havent seen the Su-34s or the mirages or the eurofighters take mixed loadouts.
never was claimed by anyone. IOG provides the munition with a kind of GNSS guidance if it loses its primary method of tracking. meaning smoke wont cause the Kh-38 to dip and fall way short. it will just hit the point it was last going towards when it was still tracking. this is not a new feature so i dont know how you dont get this.
strawmanning. no one claimed this. the comparison was between the 38 and the AGM65.
not easily. theres a range where they cannot be intercepted. the sheer linear velocity doesnt let even the best SAMs to manage the deviation intercept.
and no one did. you are imagining things.
and no one stated that either. how are you misunderstanding people this much?
@Armen_Lozone Note, I am AGREEING with you that Kh-38s are OP.
And we need new SPAA that will assist in that fact.
I however am not going to glaze Russia and their equipment just because I could dislike the fact Hammers and PGM_3s are as OP according to your own standards set forth, as well as my own standards, and AGM-65s are as OP under my standards.
Hammer has the superior GPS backup ON TOP OF IOG that your argument cares about.
Hammer and Kh-38 have similar theoretical ranges, both have IOG, both are bomb-like warheads, and Hammer has GPS backup.
almost as OP. as you might have seen in my original post i mentioned the IR hammer if you had read it.
it doesnt have the speed however hence hammer =/= KH-38
slow as hell. the slower a missile, the worse its IOG is. WT models inertial drift in case u didnt know. hence the missile/bomb still veers ever so slightly off course. if its faster, inertial drift doesnt get that much time to affect the trajectory.
bro stop lmao. ur twisting my words and twisting yourself in the process. if i said the KH-38 is the most OP. that is it. period.
again, not the point of the convo. stay on track.
ok…
tell me something i dont know lol
no one here is. if you think i am then youre rlly sleep deprived rn.
only hammers are comparable. i think PGM-3 is even slower than hammers iirc
While we have a disagreement over the methods we came to our stances, we both agree that Kh-38 is OP.
I just wish you saw every IR missile as OP and was focusing on everything.
I’m sick of people getting on the bandwagon only after a Soviet missile is added and not when other missiles have been ruining top BR for far longer.
And GBUs prior to Pantsir’s September 2024 buffs [kind of glad GBUs aren’t OP anymore… just need to work on these missiles, including Kh-38].
thats the thing though. not all IR missiles (AGMs) are OP imo. many are fairly balanced (not considering how easy it is to get them ofc)
we need to introduce counterparts to the Kh-38 or replace it with ones that are comparable but less game breaking weaponry (such as i listed in the first post)
the main problem is mmv seeker’s huge fov will lock undesired targets, and due to radar seeker’s character, you can’t know what the missile is locking.
the number isn’t a problem, they can just limit it “for balance”, like in MI-35M, which has only half of its missile.
That’s the primary criticism of radar missiles I’ve adopted from the community.
I thought the only concern was undefeatability until last year when someone brought that up in the Brimstone topic.
I then considered how many potential teamkills that’d be… 5 - 20.
Far more than someone with a reckless FAB-5000 could pull off, and the radar-missile slinger would do it unintentionally, thus not even bannable. An unbannable teamkilling weapon… That’s the worst part.
Also Mi-35M doesn’t have half its missiles. It has all of its missiles that the devs are aware of it using.
At least one version of the Mi-35 has wiring for AGMs on one side of the aircraft IRL according to unclassed docs I’ve read.
Not sure why that is the case.
And now Gaijin add another x6 KH-38 with separate type of aircraft but still no FnF brimstone because it will operate risk free of SPAA?
Total Double standard clown
I only play ground nowadays in the context of SRE. I think any top clans can utilize brimstones effectively, anyways mmw radar would be miserable for people in the ground for the mere fact you can’t smoke it.
Our air constantly calls out “ground smoke” and we can utilize double popping to move out enough of the way to defeat IOG, mmw Radar would not get defeated this way
Top clan can vs even new born baby can is different
Like anyone who face Russia ground isn’t miserable already (and will be more miserable in up coming update)
Anyway since Gaijin can make SAL brimstone (which brimstone don’t have it) they can also make Brimstone IR too but they don’t
@AlvisWisla
It’s quite ammusing when I hear this coming from you. Looks like my previous got removed because it ruffled some feathers lol. For someone who accuses others of spreading/beliving Russian propaganda, they sure can’t take the heat…
For anyone else who is reading this (mainly for @Armen_Lozone), here’s the context of that previous post.
The author had a suggestion of two weapon systems. The AGM-84E SLAM and the AGM-154C JSOW.
To put it simply the both use a IR+GPS+IOG guidance system where the IR seeker is derived from AGM-65D.
Both are subsonic weapons. The SLAM is a missile where as the JSOW is a glide bomb.
When it comes to the range they are quite high however due to map size, this will hardly be ever used. In addition, there already exists extreme range munitions, for example you can get a point lock 20+km on the KH38.
As you can see, the SLAM is better than the mavericks but it is still worse than the KH-38. And the JSOW is just a glide bomb with better guidance capabilities.
This is what he said:
The issue that many have with him is not with his stance on IR agms as a whole but his stance that all IR agms are as potent as each other.
SLAM and JSOW if implemented right now is not game breaking because there already exists an AGM (KH38) that is more potent than them.
KH-38ML being the faster, longer range missile, which still puts the Brimstone at a disadvantage in some scenarios, but the sheer number of Brimstones you can carry makes it for it. I don’t think their play styles would differ much.
The MT is pretty much everything Gaijin said about the Brimstone on release, it’s unfair, unbalanced, can be fired outside AA range and can’t be countered by players on ground. So why is it allowed to stay?
@HondaCivici
Since all you care about is upsetting people, we can dismiss your posts.
Laughing at others being upset is trolling 101; if that’s not your intent then I highly recommend removing/editing your posts to omit such things.
Here are all the things I actually said BTW:
1- IR AGMs are not identical to each other when directly compared. - Me, unknown year prior to 2022 - present.
This statement has never changed. I’ve never said that IR AGMs are equal to each other in a direct comparison.
2- IR AGMs in War Thunder in mixed battles modes are equally OP due to SPAA’s inability to destroy their carrier aircraft. [This may have been poorly written in the past.]
3- Being equally OP DOES NOT mean they are identical to each other in a direct comparison.
4- Kh-38 was the best missile at introduction in a direct comparison to other IR AGMs at the time, something I’ve believed since that dev server.
5- Hammer is currently the best IR AGM IMO at this time.
Instead of inventing strawman fallacies to argue against, just say you hate it when Armen and I say Kh-38 is OP, or agree with us that it’s OP.
Cause I agreed with you in the past that Kh-38 was the best IR AGM in a vacuum [aka direct comparisons to capabilities] multiple times…
And yes, I posted that I want the AGM-84E in-game. What of it?
Riiight, because you totally did not just say that:
The AGM-65s are already the KH-38 equivalent missile as well for the foreseeable future.
It does…
If not identical, there exists pros and cons to each system where they can be seen as equals. As @Armen_Lozone have already suggested, the KH38 is by far the most OP agm in game. More potent than the Hammer and the Mavericks.
You don’t…
If you agreed with him, then you would agree that aircrafts that only use the mavericks need a better agm such as the SLAM. Or, you would agree that the KH38 needs to get replaced with a lesser version.
No you don’t.
I have not stated there the best IR agm in a vacuum because they are the best in actual use. There’s a big difference between the two, stop pretending that they are the same.
No you didn’t
Those weapons would take months to develop and balance for BR placement; though of course they should be added when ready
They could be added right now (to at least top tier aircraft) without any need of balancing.
