AGM balance: Discussion with intent to replace Kh-38 and similar weapons with balanced Munitions

Machinery of War Discussion Aircraft
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Hello everyone!

Russian AGMs

So once again theres been a lot… and i mean a LOT of controversy with the Kh-38ML and MT going on the Su-30SM. Considering theyre the best AGMs in the game at the moment and with no possible counter for the MT unless youre an SPAA and happen to detect it and happen to react soon enough.

A few of the main points of contention for the Kh-38 are as follows:

  • Speed
  • Warhead
  • IOG

And one from me:

  • Top attack trajectory

My counter suggestion, to replace the Kh-38, in a way that will placate both the Russians and other nation players, is the Kh-25MT and MTP series of AGMs.

Kh-25MT: Has range of 20km with a TV seeker (point lock) and the standard Kh-25 warhead.
Kh-25MTP: Has a range of 20km with an IR seeker and the standard Kh-25 warhead.

Detailed Specifications KH-25MT

in russian
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Detailed Specifications KH-25MTP

in russian
translated

As an add on to that, since there are so many types of AGM-65s, the Russians can get the S-25T and

Detailed Specifications S-25TV & IRS

in russian
translated

Not only will this balance the overwhelming range advantage that the Russians have, but this will also not take away from any aircraft that can use the Kh-38ML/MT. In fact, there will be more aircraft such as the MiG-27K and M and the Su-17/22M4 that can use these weapons as well.
So overall, the Russians gain more attackers while the rest of the playerbase gets a higher chance to survive.

IIRC there are also laser guided variants of the S-13 rocket. Those can be added as brimstone equivalents.

Detailed Specifications S-13Kr

in russian
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Source

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French AGMs

Now, the French havent really had many long range AGMs for long. The recent addition with the AASM Hammers have been quite effective in their role in WT.

The Laser and GPS guided variants do not seem to be as much effective since they are either restricted by lack of target position updates or the 20km range limitation of all TGPs in WT for now.

I am happy to discuss more about possible replacements for this weapon, primarily the IR guided variant but the Laser guided one is also up for discussion.

Maybe the Martel if it is compatible? or some trialled AGM like the AS-30L that has around 20k of range?

There is however the LaGS. A near 20km laser guided AIM-9L that can easily take out SPAA and some Light tanks as well. It can be added to any aircraft that can use the AIM-9L and has a TGP.

Brimstones

Now as far as I am aware, Gaijin has no plans to introduce a self guided Brimstone variant. Probably due to the sheer amount of missiles that can be carried. So, this missile is up for discussion if anything at all.

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Best option if no FnF is to simply upgrade them to a later version but retain SAL to keep them competitive with KH-38 and AASM. But Brimstone 1s would be fine Vs earlier AGMs in terms of balance. Tornado Gr4 already has the PGMs but the Typhoon has no alternative

I do still believe though the best way to achieve better balance is to just remove IOG from AGMs

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Arent Brimstone I’s supposed to have 20+km of range anyway?

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Yeah… Which they can given enough launch speed and alt. But I think any attempt to argue for longer guidance time for them has failed due to lack of primary sources.

The last I heard, gunjob tried the argument that Brimstone 2s upgraded the motor but not the battery and yet achieves approx 60km range. Therefore the 1s should not be as limited by the battery

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battery times for many AGMs are, IMO, given arbitrary values or hard cut-off points with respect to distance travelled.
mostly because TV guided weapons can point lock 20km but not all of them can travel 20km so the battery is a way to model self destruction for such AGMs… unfairly in some cases

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Yep, very annoying

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i dont suppose you have any other annoyingly unbalanced AGMs in mind?

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The Martels on board French aircraft are only the anti-radar versions; the TV-guided version has never been purchased.

Otherwise, to be honest, France currently has all its air-to-ground missiles on its planes.(even some that they shouldn’t have)

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Only other one that jumps to mind is the year ISH old report for Harrier Gr7 to get AGM-65s on the outer pylons bringing their total up to 6, if that counts

Or AJ168 getting a totally fictional guidance method

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yeah ive read abt that.its supposed to be MITL but in WT its TV guided lol

otherwise mavericks rlly arent OP imo, just need better SPAA overall

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but compatible regardless?

lol which ones

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Probably down to whether the data-link pods are compatible rather than the missiles.

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No, not even, the system is not at all the same for shooting, the way the TV-guided Martel works requires a lot of electronics

PGMs are weapons used on export Mirages but have never been tested or fired by French Mirages and otherwise the 2000D RMV should not have access to the AASM

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Yeah, I always considered the F-16s good CAS not because of the AGM-65s they carried but because of the quantity, platform handling and multirole ability. On anything I have with them like the GR7, I barely touch them

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ive seen a mirage F-1 mount a Kh-29L once…

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especially when, suppose on the F-4F, you get only 2 for the same price as an F-4E get 6 of them

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Iraqui variant, not french, the Iraquian heavily modified there Mirage

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Yeah, quantity based SP costs would be huge and how I would balance FnF Brimstones

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I have no idea why this is still not in game, but Kh-38 is.

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would have to rely on buddy lasing though, i dont recall it having any TGP

a shame that feature hasnt been implemented still

well honestly, these are scarcely known and trialled weapons not rlly put into widespread service

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