I’m indifferent, I have no issues facing the Kh-38. Additionally I would like to see those Kh-25s too tho.
thats fair, although cant say we agree on the 38s lol
In an ideal world the KH-38MT wouldn’t have made it to the game, KH-38ML is fine as a Brimstone (SAL) counterpart, they force the player to engage single targets, increase the skill ceiling for CAS and fairness for those on the ground. I’m actually happy they went with SAL guidance from Brimstones, it makes gameplay, fun and satisfying, KH-38MT on the other hand takes no skill, and it’s always a guaranteed kill, where is the fun in that?
Either remove the IR guided version of KH-38 or give Brimstones its full capabilities, albeit with a limited amount of FnF and no limit on SAL.
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It was likely an over correction after the addition of the SAP-HE and IR guided mavs alongside killing multiple birds with one stone as out of one general missile you were originally getting two agms and two glidebombs which overall is alot less work for 3d modelling. IMO we could have gotten this (IR kh-25s) over a year ago and the IR kh-29s.
As for FnF brimstones and other ARH A2G munitions im happy for them to stay out of the game till gaijin reworks radar modelling and adds both ECM and natural interference because the complaining about CAS rn is bad enough i dont even want to think about the ire KH-25MA/E, KH-29MP or KH-38MA would bring.
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Because unlike Kh-38, Kh-25MT/MTP never made it past the prototyping stage at best. (Along with every other weapon for Russia mentioned in this post)
Issue is with Russia, there’s no gap filler between Kh-29 and Kh-38 that actually exists. All the projects that could’ve worked as a gap filler, were either cancelled or only proposed for export if someone bought it to fund the actual development of it (Zhuk-A/AM/MiG-35 Syndrome)
Hell, to be honest its an issue with any kind of weaponry in game, nations will develop different things to fit different needs or to fulfill some kind of contract, you can’t really “standardize the performance military weaponry” (without ahistorically nerfing it ala Magic II) for the sake of WT to make everything balanced…
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I don’t think Kh-29MP has ever existed no? also Kh-38MA is an active homing seeker, ie its meant for Anti-Shipping, not SEAD iirc
Kh-38 is an OP 20km [game-limited] IR AGM that can be [people care about this one apparently] intercepted by SPAA using the same IR seeker as AGM-65D.
For now it’s “artificially nerfed” [not actually, it’s just game-limited at this time].
So yeah, for now in-practice it’s at least as OP as all the other IR AGMs.
Speed is only primarily useful for preventing “stolen frags”.
Warhead is seen on Hammer, AGM-65G, and PGM_3 as well.
IOG I’ve only heard conjecture of so far for its usefulness; would need to see consistent video examples of its alleged usefulness.
A LOT has to change in War Thunder for Kh-38s, and probably PGM_3 and Hammer, to be the only OP IR AGMs in the game.
First off these two things need to occur: Each missile needs their own unique IR seeker, AND the 20km game limit needs to be fixed.
No, not really. There is a world of difference between them.
theres something called the compound effect.
basically, a thing by itself is not as important. but simultaneously with another thing, the compound, or the combination, becomes very vital.
the unique feature set that the Kh-38 has is not found in any other AGM. OP by intrinsic definition, means that, that thing in particular is more powerful than everything else.
the Kh-38 is OP because of its speed, manoeuvrability, Warhead, IOG and top attack trajectory at longer ranges.
Theres no way around it. there is a consensus of the majority. No Other Missile can do what the Kh-38 does
hold cursor over statcard and maybe youll see
better zoom. better thermals quality. gen 2 iirc. also out of the three aircraft that get the Kh-38, 2 have TGP or built in TVD which is nearly 3rd gen. hence that argument isnt exactly = to even AGM-65D with
TGP
now that is… a foolish take to have. Speed allows you to engage and be rid of your target all the more quicker. allows your missile to get to target before they can have time to react or to get into cover. Speed allows ur missile to evade interception. speed is so much more than you give credit to.
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OP in the context of CAS means OP in relation to SPAA, not other CAS platforms; any argument that tries to do otherwise is just trying to justify CAS not being OP when it is. And your post’s argument can and will be used to justify Kh-38s aren’t OP whenever someone brings up Brimstones.
F-15E is the most powerful CAS platform, that doesn’t mean it’s more or less OP than Su-30SM.
What matters is what can SPAA do against these platforms? Nothing.
At best, if you’re skilled enough in ADATS, ITO-90M, Flarakrad, or Pantsir you can take out AGMs flying in, but you can’t frag the carrier that will go and rearm.
War Thunder CAS isn’t trying to frag each other, they’re trying to frag tanks.
Statcards aren’t videos of IOG providing a tangible benefit.
Kh-38s don’t have better zoom or thermals than targeting pods.
And Kh-38s are intercepted by SPAA as everything else. You don’t get to argue that SPAA can intercept and them claim SPAA can’t afterward.
Kh-38s ARE OP.
Not because of some weird overly complicated arguments that are easily used to argue Brimstones “more OP”, but because they are fire & forget IR AGMs with a range of 20km [IR range of ~12km] that make their host aircraft unkillable via SPAA as no SPAA in the game can reach those ranges.
since i am the context provider allow me to make it clear that the Kh-38 is OP with regards to everything. not just cas, not just spaa. everything.
no idea where you pulled that out of. theres no relation to this deduction from the initial argument.
because lets face it, you misunderstood. CAS is OP. period. but the most OP AGM is the Kh-38.
yeah… if the reader never bothered to really understand nor fully read my points.
one of. not the most.
most powerful means it is above every other platform. you yourself state,
which is exactly what it means
and guess what, we have time and ample opportunity to intercept all other munitions other than the Kh-38 at long or short range.
SPAA being neutered is another topic. there are other places to discuss that. i myself have a thread about it. but not this one.
whataboutism is not the way forward. because you cant say what about spaa being weak. no. im talking about the Kh-38. not SPAA.
then you havent seen the Su-34s or the mirages or the eurofighters take mixed loadouts.
never was claimed by anyone. IOG provides the munition with a kind of GNSS guidance if it loses its primary method of tracking. meaning smoke wont cause the Kh-38 to dip and fall way short. it will just hit the point it was last going towards when it was still tracking. this is not a new feature so i dont know how you dont get this.
strawmanning. no one claimed this. the comparison was between the 38 and the AGM65.
not easily. theres a range where they cannot be intercepted. the sheer linear velocity doesnt let even the best SAMs to manage the deviation intercept.
and no one did. you are imagining things.
and no one stated that either. how are you misunderstanding people this much?
@Armen_Lozone
Note, I am AGREEING with you that Kh-38s are OP.
And we need new SPAA that will assist in that fact.
I however am not going to glaze Russia and their equipment just because I could dislike the fact Hammers and PGM_3s are as OP according to your own standards set forth, as well as my own standards, and AGM-65s are as OP under my standards.
Hammer has the superior GPS backup ON TOP OF IOG that your argument cares about.
Hammer and Kh-38 have similar theoretical ranges, both have IOG, both are bomb-like warheads, and Hammer has GPS backup.
Oh, and PGM_3 run IR + IOG as well, just you’re “stuck” with 4 of them maximum on a Su-34-like platform.
All these things are OP, and to your argument Hammer is the most OP cause it has GPS backup, with PGM and Kh-38 being equally OP.
As for “getting behind cover”, when firing from 10,000 meters, or even 9000 meters, it takes a particularly tall building to hide from these munitions.
Also my comparison was CAS vs CAS, I’m not firing Kh-38s, Hammers, AGM-65s, or PGMs without targeting pod assistance. Now, in the case of Su-34 that targeting pod is only getting me near, and the Kh-38’s LITENING-like zoom and thermals are used for the acquisition itself, but the targeting pods are there to give assistance.
This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.
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almost as OP. as you might have seen in my original post i mentioned the IR hammer if you had read it.
it doesnt have the speed however hence hammer =/= KH-38
slow as hell. the slower a missile, the worse its IOG is. WT models inertial drift in case u didnt know. hence the missile/bomb still veers ever so slightly off course. if its faster, inertial drift doesnt get that much time to affect the trajectory.
bro stop lmao. ur twisting my words and twisting yourself in the process. if i said the KH-38 is the most OP. that is it. period.
again, not the point of the convo. stay on track.
ok…
tell me something i dont know lol
no one here is. if you think i am then youre rlly sleep deprived rn.
only hammers are comparable. i think PGM-3 is even slower than hammers iirc
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Spoiler
It’s a little sad this was a blatantly incorrect statement.
Kh-38 and PGM_3 have the same feature sets.
Spoiler
Hammer has a superior feature set.
Spoiler
And AGM-65G shares all but IOG.
Spoiler
No one has twisted your words @Armen_Lozone And I apologize if my posts portrayed that. It’s not my intent for my posts to come across in that manner.
IOG: Hammer, PGM_3, Kh-38.
GPS: Hammer.
Warhead: Kh-38, AGM-65G, Hammer, PGM_3.
IR: AGM-65D/G, Hammer, PGM_3, Kh-38.
Hammers are straight up superior to Kh-38 by the standards your posts set thus far.
You are welcome to change those standards, and I’ll adapt with them; I will however hold the standards you set to account.
And @vKALiBUR coming in to say that the reason people having me muted is cause I call Kh-38 OP… okay buddy.
then you fail to understand still.
feature set of the Kh-38:
- speed
- warhead
- IOG
- top attack trajectory
no other AGM has the same set, showing me statcards wont help if you failed to understand my point entirely.
then you continue to misunderstand bro. sorry i cant help with that
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While we have a disagreement over the methods we came to our stances, we both agree that Kh-38 is OP.
I just wish you saw every IR missile as OP and was focusing on everything.
I’m sick of people getting on the bandwagon only after a Soviet missile is added and not when other missiles have been ruining top BR for far longer.
And GBUs prior to Pantsir’s September 2024 buffs [kind of glad GBUs aren’t OP anymore… just need to work on these missiles, including Kh-38].
thats the thing though. not all IR missiles (AGMs) are OP imo. many are fairly balanced (not considering how easy it is to get them ofc)
we need to introduce counterparts to the Kh-38 or replace it with ones that are comparable but less game breaking weaponry (such as i listed in the first post)
@HondaCivici attempting to derail the topic with ad hominem attacks all because Armen and I call his precious Kh-38 OP.
Typical that he looks down on us, Armen.
Funny how Honda provides a screenshot of me endorsing the additional weapons as well; and claims that it’s deflection to be on-topic and agreeable…
the main problem is mmv seeker’s huge fov will lock undesired targets, and due to radar seeker’s character, you can’t know what the missile is locking.
the number isn’t a problem, they can just limit it “for balance”, like in MI-35M, which has only half of its missile.
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