AGM-114 Hellfire - Badly underperforming?

HEAT based ATGMs are hardcapped to either 20 or 30mm of Overpressure penetration depending on if they are tandem or not.

For closed-up vehicles, this happens when explosion effect manages to penetrate the armour of the vehicle:

For HE, overpressure damage is calculated when a shell fragment from an explosion hits something inside of the vehicle, proving that explosion got inside of it. This leads to high-yield explosives nearly always taking out a vehicle in a single hit, due to the shockwave being able to move around frontal armour and to hit the entirety of the crew that way.

HEAT and HESH shells and ATGM can also create overpressure damage but are less effective at it compared to HE ammunition and seem to only affect vehicles when very thin parts of the hull or their critical weak spots are hit directly, with overall armour thickness of hit surface having to be below 15 mm RHA, since their explosive power is directed towards creating special effects (molten jet for HEAT and scabbing for HESH) instead of producing shockwaves. There are exceptions in HEAT ammunition, which can deal overpressure damage through 20 mm (select few powerful HEAT ATGM) or 30 mm RHA (most tandem missiles). Tanks with reasonable amount of armour will not take overpressure damage from HEAT, even if special effect penetrates them easily.

"This mechanic affects vehicles with thin armour negatively, but, unlike with the hullbreak, any tank is potentially vulnerable to overpressure damage. As a result, it makes not only light, but also heavy tanks easier to destroy by using bombs, rockets, big HE shells or artillery strikes. To utilize the mechanic effectively, be sure to aim for a weak spots on the armour, such as roofs, vents, bellies, tank rear and overtrack sponsons, to maximize the chance of a successful penetration.

So by that description, the Hellfire should definitely be over pressuring the turret as it’s hitting 20mm of armor with a Tandem warhead.

So my report got closed as duplicate of this one: Gaijin.net // Issues made by @YaBoyCoconut
Good new is that his report was acknowledged, so hopefully one day we might get a fix.

Just bringing this up cuz I didnt notice anyone bring it up yet, but the loft code for the AGM-114 in-game borderline prevents it from properly lofting since;

  1. Its loft angle is pretty bad at 9.6 deg (literally less than half that of some comparable missiles)
  2. Its target elevation angle is miniscule at -15 deg, which is give or take the angle it will try to strike a target at from my understanding of the current in-game loft mechanics

AGM-114A/B/C/F/K:
image

AGM-65A/B/D, PARS 3, Spike ER:
image

Which is, to my understanding, why the PARS 3 and Spike ER tend to fall on targets while the AGM-114 tend to fall BEFORE the target and waste all their energy trying not to hit the ground before striking the target nearly directly

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The basic Hellfire-L isn’t in the game, and you expect they will add a more advanced missile that hasn’t even entered production lmao

Yes it was acknowledged, and its been like that for a while. I can only assume nothing is going to change.

Just glad Interfleet got there before KotA or that other one, they like to just close things and tell you it’s working as intended.

At least with this one, I can make a note to check back in 2024 for patch notes regarding AGM-114s

I manage to fire 8 HF at T80 from 4km away and not kill him. 4 of them I guided manualy to at least hit something else (if thet fall in same spot) but this did not help. Milsiles was fire 2 at the time.

Im not sure if it will be of help to someone here, but here is a Hellfire file that talks about hellfire versions, iog, loal modes ect.

I hope this gets looked at. Been noticing this a lot with hellfires, at 7.5km or so theh just fall short of AA that im targeting. Also guidance just turning off after i turn laser off, very annoying. Meanwhile russian helis get proxy fused double speed missiles that ignore smoke :D

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why does it state in a lot of places the missile can reach 11km?

Yeah. Vikhr is modelled as a super-atgm that can do everything. Whereas the hellfire, which is much better in real life, is modelled to be rubbish. The top-down attack trajectory isn’t done properly at all.

If they want to nerf Hellfires for balance reasons, sure go ahead. I can see how they would be too OP if they were basically a guaranteed kill with every launch like they are in real life. But don’t make the Vikhr according to Russian military fantasy specs then. It’s still far too good at taking down air targets.

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The can be launch from fixed wing aircraft. By launching at a higher altitude and faster speed it improves the missiles range

can the apache fire it like that if it has enough alitude?

Highly unlikely an Apache could generate the altitude or speed to achieve an 11km launch. It’s also not how the Apache or helicopters in general operate.

in theory, also depends on the time-out for the missile. I think they just explode after a certain amount of time/distance. Not sure if that is accurate to IRL? I’ve fired some before and tracked them (in Heli PvE) against a base, and they would have likely hit but was beyond 8km, so didnt

Because it probably can, even with static launch.

What I gathered from AH-64 pilots it can hit targets well past 8km (especially later versions with digital autopilot) but hit probability of moving targets drops considerably past 8km. So 8km is most likely doctrinal limitation.

Air launched Hellfires has far greater range then 11km.

well untill AAs get a buff to deal with jets i wont be taking the apache out again. that and what was explained here that the hellfire should rise right after launch so we can fire under cover.

I have also seen evidence of AGM-114 max range being greater than 8km for modern variants.

Unfortunately the evidence of this is not kosher to be shared outside the US (and therefore on this forum or with snail in general).

I would personally prefer them to fix the autopilot for the missile and the absolutely terrible lofting code instead. Hellfires should be coming in to hit people from the top down, not just slightly above them.

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What’s the general consensus of the IOG on Hellfire missiles (and other ATGMs) in general?

I thought in concept, the missile should be able to use IOG to hit the location that you last lased, but as soon as you turn the laser off, the missile basically drops like a rock. Is this even realistic?

I feel like if the missile had the IOG feature like how it should work on paper, it would be able to self guide itself to the last known lase position, which would give the Hellfire missiles interesting capability: such as pre-firing on concentration of enemies, hide, then pop up when your missile is about 5-10 seconds out to reacquire lase, or even punishing users who decide to stay in one spot too long

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