No, I just understand the game.
There is more to the game than purely jets. I think the biggest benefit for improved contrails is actually the lower BRs, where climbing has value. Especially for bombers.
There is more to the game than purely jets.
Except the context here is 100% purely about jets and top tier SARH. Read the replies.
Not all, but even then. I’d kinda agree. Not all radars have a large field of view vertically. Tornado F3 is a very narrow slice. So you may not necessarily see something sitting above you in the radar, but you definetly would see the giant white streak in the sky. Doesnt necessarily mean that you’d go for that person, but whether its the start of the match or later in the match. You would be at least be aware of someone up there and go get them eventually.
Fingers crossed we’ll see bigger maps on the horizon and things like spotting a jet cross map from its contrail trail is kinda annoying.
Take a slightly lower BR. I use to enjoy the Lighning (before red top nerfs) and i’d hard climb in that thing and sit above the battlefield, diving down on targets below. but you can now spot anyone climbing instantly and the element of surprise/stealth is completely eliminated.
The point about jets, is not necessarily that you suddenly start getting attacked by a dozen people the moemnt you climb, but instead that you can no longer use alt in the same way. Climb past a certain point and everyone knows you are there.
In ASB this is even more apparent as you can spot someone beyond the range of most radars, just by their smoke trail
My 2 cents:
I see a lot of response on jets, fewer on bombers. But with contrails as a game Feature, And, you’re in Prop. Bomber the Enemy can SEE you from 15 miles a way.
So Jet or Prop if you climb, you are dead, 3 ways from zero. everybody “flocks” to shoot you first.
I had brought this up a long time ago about the conditions of contrails forming, but other people in this topic have done it much more ScientificallY.
__________The Bottom Line_______Contrails Must GO
The excuse of bombers is kind of moot, because bomber can also see fighter(s) coming much further away and react earlier
If all bombers were decently armed or had a decent damage model. That would be true. But the reality is. Some bombers are dead if they are engaged. Lancaster for example. Its impact is 100% dependent on what bomber you are talking about.
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I mainly made this thread because of BVR combat in top tier jet matches, where contrails are toxic and reveal all moves, due to these bright white lines indicating where you are. Clicking the radar lock button, fire the R-27 or Aim-7F from below. It makes radar seaches and arcs pretty much redundant, in theory you can just switch off your seach radar and just spam PD clicks on these white line’s. I’ve had several situations where you went in at 12000m but easily getting farmed from a lawnmover which just spots the white line, pulls up for a few 1000m, locks and kills you from below and dives back to the deck. Without contrails there would be no chance he knows where to aim and where to spam the radar lockdown button.
But yesterday I used to had a an RB task to kill bomber type aircraft. So I used a plane with interceptor spawn. Shortly after spawn I saw the white lines incoming. Their direction cleary indicated what pair of bases where the destinations of the incoming bombers. So I climbed accordingly from the beginning and finally had an ideal interception course + height and downed 3 soviet B-25 (probably bots lol) in just one go.
Without this new spotting assistance called contrails, I never could have predicted where to go from the beginning. Combined with the new weak damage model (or much higher cannon damage), its a laughable game mechanic. You see where they are. Where they’re going. Brrp dead, brrrp dead, brrrp dead. And this is called realistic mode…
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Im 100% convinced this addition was not about realism. It was a way to counter space climbers. A soft alt cap. And it sucks. Currently SARH gameplay is annoying because of contrails but you do have to semi expose yourself to engage… when ARH come… the average alt will be less than contrail height. It will suck
Too much handholding for RB modes. Can’t some influential guy just tell Devs how meh all these mechanics are. Also in Ground RB. Arcade like indicators from what direction the enemy shot was fired. Important tactical routes and spots closed with rocks and other obstacles to make them inaccessible. Cause supposed “unfair”…
They should stop that. Contrails are just another meh mechanic which follow this trend.
It really sucks in ASB where you can spot someone cross map with ease. I tried to use alt to sneak cross map in a buc, at a BR where there isnt many radars. I was spotted and intercepted instantly. Stuck with low alt after that. Not easy on afghanistan
The mistake was not having maps with a hard deck.
I respect your faith in gaijin, but i see it the other way around - i see it as realism and an extremely helpful tool to track multiple enemies chasing you - at least in my exclusively played prop BR 3.7 in Air RB.
I fully agree that the implementation (the actual altitude when they appear on hot/medium/cold maps) is far beyond realism, but if you play Air RB you might know the feeling to be allocated to (mainly US) rookie teams and playing 1 vs all after 8-10 minutes as your team thought “climbing is for nerds” and died low to hordes or RU planes in turnfights or headons with buffed 20mms below 3km…
So the contrails help you a lot to prioritize targets and to group them together. The indication of speed, direction and their intention is extremely valuable if you fly “real” - so with jstick and not with mouse.
I got the points of jet players, but if you fly a prop plane the contrails help to fight enemies at the best altitude - so dragging a Spit or Yak-3 higher put them in a disadvantage due to severe loss of engine power (assuming u fly a plane with “better” engine) - so i see it as a benefit.
The appearance of “suspicious B-25s” is a nightmare - all u have to do is to assess the nearest base from their spawn point - fly there and you find 2-4 of them…
That contrails make the life of B-17s or Sterlings much more complicated is true, but from my pov they accepted their death just by spawning into the game; even without the contrails their dots are indicators enough…
Wow, I have never seen that…HAHA. But Bombers don’t “see” Fighters from further away. Don’t qoute me, but in my experience (5 years), how “far” you can see is dependent on your PILOT Skills (keeness and awareness IIRC) (Expert crew and Ace crew make a Big difference) And the maps environment, changes which can vary. I’ve flyin’ dem Bombers a looong time.
PIlot Skills are a function of skill level ( not, the git gud kind) but BR. If you’re at the bottom of the BR…Oh the Pain, THE PAIN. ;))
We used to have more weather variety and night games but it seems the majority of players didn’t like it. I know it could sometimes be a bit frustrating but learning how to use cloud cover was a bit of skill.
I think it should vary from BR to BR. Night matches in props i could see being bad, but top tier? Same with heavy clouds.
Id especially like to see more variation in ASB too. We have NVGs and cockpit lights but no night maps
I mean - its realistic. Generally if you stay below 18,000 feet you wont contrail.
Really any higher than that is going to be a death sentence because missiles are so hard to dodge at 30,000 feet.
If you’re flying an F104 which they like to space shuttle most of the team is down low anyways so you have to come back down at somepoint - and most people dont look up anyways.
That’s because in ASB spotting is complete and utter garbage so people don’t go high much. With or without trails the dots are more visible on blue background whereas in reverse you cannot see anything at all down, unless you have ESP or gimmicked settings and the map ground texture is right. So what ends up happening is you get zoom climbed all the time, especially in missile tiers where you can’t see down at all (forced cockpit vie)
Not sure how I feel about contrails overall but I don’t mind it that much, considering how buggy and glitchy dot spotting is in this game in any mode (rb or sb)
That is true, but certainly doesnt help
Yeah I noticed how weird dot spotting is now in ARB. I was messing around with nords on my jag and I noticed a contrail - zoomed in with my pod and there was the contrail - but no jet. Sure enough that guy got spotted and boop all of a sudden appeared - then he got unspotted and boof dissapeared.