Hello
This is a lecture paper:
“Lectures at the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology in Zurich
in the winter semester of 1984/1985
Head:
Federal Office for Communications Troops
Divisional General J. Biedermann, Chief of Weapons of the Communications Troops”
Primary sources are manuals, repair manuals, factory manuals, operating manuals, technical manuals etc. Not crew statements or lectures written by employees.
I guess i should share the whole document.
https://web.archive.org/web/20240711230409/https://www.hamfu.ch/_upload/Elektrooptik_in_Flablenkwaffen.pdf
You can clearly see its classification as a lecture is incorrect from the people who archived it.
It is a Manufacturer presentation to people higher up. You do not go and share detailed information about a system that is still very much in the works (1985 is a year where the ADATS was still in the testing)
Sadly this is not a primary source. Lectures / staff speeches / quotes / presentations are not considered primary sources.
Primary sources are manuals, repair manuals, factory manuals, operating manuals, technical manuals etc
Devs constantly moving the goal posts on what acceptable meanwhile adding stabiliser to naval ships thet never had them for gameplay purposes… Meanwhile cas at top tier is running riot and when presented with the best evidence to date… Naaa mate just a lecture bro.
i’ll wait and see if Lockheed or Rheinmetall responds to my inquiry about it
update: Rheinmetall answered, just have to plan a conference with the Dr.
still doesn’t count even if Mr. Somaini was very much involved in the ADATS project?
Found out some other things, like the penetration value of RHA is not 900mm, it’s 1000mm exactly one meter
The lock range is 15-14km on a good day, on a particularly hazy day 12km, and then in a bad 10-8km
Also found out that the E/O should lock and track missiles like the Kh38 and Kh29 due to their size but also due to the range they were launched from
I will receive sources soon in the upcoming week thanks to an amazing person who worked at the ADATS; Moritz Vischer
most of the things are still classified about this system, not because they’re still in use anywhere today, but just because there are no other people associated with it so they can declassify. Mr. Vischer left Rheinmetall and started his own company, yet he’s the only one still associated with a lot of information about the ADATS, so in the historical point of view he can explain and release some stuff, but can’t show things who aren’t declassified
I think the Thai shelter one is still up.
It isn’t, it just sits there, they also bought 16 missiles alongside it, but it has been sitting inactive for years, lots of them
He mentioned it too, that’s why
Oh, ok.
This is really, really sad. The game has a lot of ancient equipment from the 1970s and 1980s that can’t be configured due to lack of documentation. The funniest thing I’ve heard about the reason for the secrecy of such documents (probably even applies to the 1990s) is that they are secret for the banal reason that the declassification procedure is associated with a large number of legal procedures associated with various signatures and confirmations; and people are simply too lazy to do this. Considering what I heard from you, there are probably many such designers/engineers who worked on various projects, but have already forgotten the documents and many parts from them.
Gaijins are to blame themselves, they drove themselves into a position where official documentation or army instructions are needed to configure equipment. But secret because of people’s laziness. And the game turns into a fantasy game configured as beneficial to the developers. And the work that the player does to fix the equipment should be done by the Gaijins themselves, but this is done by players and for free = business in Russian.
From the recent ones, Flakpanzer Gepard. Even from the first models the radar accuracy (swimming of the capture point at a distance) and radar sensitivity to radar cross factor are unknown, although many Gepards have already been removed from service and are clearly not secret. Even the models delivered to Ukraine and the 1A2 versions with FIM92K are most likely not secret, but there are no characteristics and especially no documentation on them. And this would greatly strengthen the Gepard in the game, which now can practically not shoot down anything.
I don’t think it’s connected with Russian missiles, at the moment all SAMs are very weak in the game. Even the Pansir S1, which scares everyone, has big problems with the radar and its stability in the game. The Pansir S1 can’t shoot down guided bombs with missiles, although in reality it can. The ASRAD-R Bolide has very big problems with the missile stability after 5 km and the target acquisition range in fog/clouds (there are suspicions that in reality the IR automatic tracking is not as susceptible to influence as in the game). The Stormer HVM can’t shoot down even a straight-flying target, although 7-9G is declared. Crotale NG (Ito90m) can’t engage two targets at the same time, although some sources say so. Its VT1 missile doesn’t deliver the required 35G overload and 15km range (I suspect that the missile’s speed drops much faster than it should).
I think this is done for the general dominance of CAS in the air, so that pilots don’t cry.
Imagine their surprise and tears after purchasing premium packages, that it turns out that aviation in reality cannot fly over the battlefield and destroy targets with impunity. And even the tactics of flying at low altitude do not work in reality - you are unlikely to be able to spot a target in a short time and aim a missile/bomb at it + all infantrymen will start shooting at you, including hand weapons. (Rumor has it that in Vietnam an F105 accidentally ejected its pilot from the ejection seat after being hit by a rifle bullet, possibly due to an electronic short circuit or hydraulic failure…)
The game does not even implement an adaptive non-contact fuse for anti-aircraft missiles. In reality, depending on the class of the target, the operator can choose the sensitivity radius of the missile fuse before launching it, or it is set automatically. I know that such a fuse exists in the Pansir S1 and Tan-SAM 81 Kai (from 5 to 15 meters), in theory it will be impossible to miss even a drone, and I think that all missiles with a non-contact fuse have such a fuse. Now in the game, reconnaissance and assault drones sometimes survive 3-5 missiles (they should be shot down instantly after 1).
They say penetration is over 90 cm, but it’s unclear how much more. If it were 100 cm, I think marketing would say so.
In these images from a test at White Sands Missile Range, you can see it went through more than 9 blocks, but without knowing if each one is 10 cm thick it’s useless.
By the way, check out the missile assembly:
https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxGmb6XOYBn-S89ssHS1ZzgMHF-Q992JyE?si=WPTkO-K2KYQQ4Va9
This video was restricted in Switzerland, but I managed to download and upload it to YouTube.
i mean
Is there any data on the type of fragments, their mass, speed and effective radius of damage of MIM146? There is little data on this matter for Pansir S1 (95Я6 aka 57Э6 missle), but there is: The warhead is designed to destroy air targets and consists of explosive 2 and striking elements, which are a fragmentation jacket 4 and rods 3 fastened together, laid along the surface of the explosive and connected in pairs. The fragmentation jacket has the form of steel rings with an internal notch applied to them. The speed of fragmentation is 1500…2000 m/s. After the warhead is detonated, the rods form a ring. The damage zone is determined by the maximum radius of the rod ring and reaches a diameter of 12 m with a field continuity coefficient of 90% and 18 m with a field continuity coefficient of 65%. The advantage of such a warhead is that the resulting ring acts over a large area, destroying the target structure.
The proximity target sensor is an active radar device. It is designed to send a signal to the contact fuse to detonate the warhead when the missile flies past the target within a radius of up to 5 m for small-sized targets (missiles, remotely piloted aircraft) and up to 9 m for large-sized targets (aircraft, helicopter). The radius of the proximity target sensor is set taking into account the effective action zone of the warhead’s striking elements.
Very little information unfortunately, not even the fuse type is specified - laser or radio fuse. The type of warhead is not specified, with ready-made striking elements/continuous rod or mixed like 95Я6.
The laser and radio fuse in reality has adjustable sensitivity to change the radius of action depending on the target. In reality, its sensitivity is also changed depending on weather conditions; during the tests of the 2S6 Tunguska 9M311, it was noted that in foggy-rainy weather, the missiles exploded even from reflections of the laser beam from raindrops or clouds/fog.
It has laser proxy
