See if you read the post then you would understand that is what this is
It is not a thing to make it like APHE but accurate to real life instead
This. APHE should realistically only be about 5-10% better than similar calibres. Really Gaijin should buff AP and nerf APHE.
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The main problem with tank imbalance is the difference between damage and RNG. It’s clear that APHE shell damage is absurd, but in addition to this, other shells, besides dealing significantly less damage, often fail to register normal damage output. This can happen with a 120mm shell penetrating and passing around all the crew members, killing only one. This actually occurs with all shells, but APHE shells are clearly the least affected.
My theory is that there’s a kind of fragment RNG at play, and when the RNG decides to generate few fragments, you don’t kill anyone. APHE shells would have the same effect but with a much more favorable RNG, which is why APHE shell penetrations without damage are much less frequent than with other shells.
Ye you are probably right on the theory part, we know RNG is at play bc its fairly obvious when you look at it
Thats why this is to basically get all the fragmentation APHE does but put it in solid shot standards
Turn that amount of fragments into
That style of dispersion
Reducing the anger of doing what that screenshot shows, a penetration but you have only made the crew yellow without even detonating the ammo it is next to
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isnt it? I agree its physics-based, but it is basically what a downside of a munition was IRL. So its an intended drawback which Brits were OKAY with while producing that munition. I highly doubt they didnt know about that.
Ah i so much agree. I hate to see the 183 hitting side plate of T-34-85 and deal basically zero damage. And then see how t58 shoots tracks and gets kills. Thats ridiculous.
Why, yes, i do know about that testing. Tho that then brings the question on why did britain create “ap-composite” munition, e.g. why did they massively convert german munitions to use with their american cannons, if they already had the M72 solid shot AP.
i gotchu.
Comet has worst possible cannon, it happends much on it, so i believe they just broke that cannon.
I played the Centurion MK2 recently and had zero “shatters” with 17pdr APDS shooting many different parts of many different tanks, maybe did 70 shots for 3 games. It did little damage tho, but thats not the problem in question. I penned the M47s through tracks and wheels, penned the TIger 2 through the tracks on turret, ect.
Yes, that was the problem with M61 which they revealed and thus asked to use solid AP M72. That showed worse results on penetration flat RHA tho.
one aims to penetrate while other aims to do damage, seems pretty fair
APDS ingame is a joke which needs to be fixed at least somehow. Seeing unpens and hit no damage with Conqueror is basically only reason i believe this tank is trash
How can it be fair, one round can do everything because of nonsense in game mechanics the other penetrates slightly more.
APDS is cooked Gaijin wont fix it, only vehicle with an APDS that works is the BMP-T
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I seem to recall it was because the initial production M61 had a terrible problem with the fuzes, and the M72 wasn’t properly hardened. It’s worth noting that German tanks had hardened outer armor, so it was better if the bullets had a cap to protect the tip. Since the British had problems with American ammunition, they decided to do something simpler: take the large quantities of German 75mm ammunition and put it in the American cannon casing. This way, they got a well-hardened bullet with a cap and fewer fuze failures.
I don’t think you read @l2ulan thread at all. This was an expedient because uncapped AP doesn’t perform well against face-hardened armour. It wasn’t about the APHE at all, it’s because the German round was APCBC. Which performed better against FHA.
You also ignored the point that APHE is more susceptible to shattering.
The AP-Composite 75mm round was nothing to do with M61 reliability, the only problem with M61 at this point in time was that it didn’t exist in service yet (which, funnily enough, means that Britain had a fully functional and reliable 75mm APHE round in service significantly earlier than American forces).
It was wholly to do with the completely uncapped M72 AP round being incredibly ineffective against the face-hardened and spaced armour that started appearing on panzer IIIs and IVs as field modifications and also out of the factory by late 1941/early 1942.
except easilly pen
yes, thats like, the point xD
You know what, that actually may be true xD
yes, thus they asked to have M72
On that i have no info, so i would assume you`re right here. It seems by that test sheet that M72 underperforms in terms of pen in comparison with both M61 and that AP-Composite.
Tho they later received both M61 Shell and M61 Shot.
I dont think this is his thread
wellb brits also received M61 Shot which was solid shot capped
How can that be truth? The AP COMPOSITE was mostly widely used with M3 Lee which was land-leased like, in 1941 WITH the M61 in stock.
You may be right, because the production dates of the M61 and the first combat of the M3 Grant are very close, so unless the Americans urgently delivered the first batches of M61s, it’s likely they would have used the M72 in their initial engagements. On the other hand, I find it curious that in the document posted by our colleague about the penetration tests, which apparently took place in Cairo, both the M72 and the German hybrid were tested, as well as the M61, which indicates that they already had the M61 during those tests.
From what I saw, it seems the American ammunition had a rather poor heat treatment, which is why they ended up preferring APCBC rounds, since with a cap the bullet didn’t break up as much and could penetrate more. This problem was corrected at the end of the war with the 90mm T33 ammunition, since it’s an M77 (same problem of poor hardening), but with a correct heat treatment and a ballistic cap, which meant it could penetrate a Panther without problems at almost 1000 meters.
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While M61 was in production in early 1942, it didn’t cross the Atlantic with lend-lease in significant quantities until late 1942/early 1943.
Meanwhile the first Grants were in service in North Africa in early 1942, and only had M72 as an armour piercing round.
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Makes sense, yes
That sheet dates to mid-to-late 1942 and yes, its Cairo, so it may also be the one of first testing of M61 munition if thats true.
Its hard to find if any of early shipped grants had M61.
Like I’ve said above, M61 was being produced in low numbers at the very earliest in early 1942, at the same time that the Grant was entering service in North Africa, but M61 wasn’t sent across in any significant quantities, definitely not enough to enter frontline service with the Grant, only enough for early testing and trials like the above Cairo firing trials.
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I think a few people are not reading the post fully, its not to make it aphe in terms of post pen
but to make the round a far more consistent piece of ammo that mimics real life, creates greater enjoyment for the playerbase and to stop things like this from happening
This is a 3.7" (94mm)APCBC penetrating a M4A3E2 which would give it near the highest amount of post pen it could possibly produce
APHE tho generally better and worse irl will not be touched and solid shot should not be brought to its level of make believe
Yes, the game would likely improve significantly simply by fixing the damage inconsistency of all non-APHE bullets. It’s extremely common that with almost every bullet you shoot an enemy and barely damage any crew members or modules, and then on the second or third shot to the exact same spot, that bullet does its correct damage, killing the tank or severely damaging it. This clearly indicates some kind of damage inconsistency (whether a bug or intentional) that only creates an unjustified imbalance.
I’m starting to think the devs don’t know how to do their job; they should hire better professionals who at least know what they’re doing.
They now what they are doing and they know what they are doing is good enough.
The machine doesn’t need to be well oiled, it just needs to run.
You might not like it, I don’t like it, but that’s how Gaijin does their business.
Takes a boycott to have them make changes to improve the game and lessen the grind.
The game already has every toxic game mechanic that doesn’t make the game better but helps fill Gaijins wallet.