ok, and? ammo has always been a balancing tool, with many vehicles ingame not having access to ammo they had irl, or having ammo ingame they never used irl. doesnt take away from the fact m1a2t isnt a copy paste
Please point out where i said copy paste? I just said it got a round that it never used
1 Like
you were responding to my comment explaining why it’s not copy paste, thought I’d clear things up
I have experienced these “teams” and let me say it definitely does feel like it’s more of a handicap playing the US
The only people ive seen saying the abrams is the worst mbt is people on youtube and level 5 players with the clickbait at top tier lol
3 Likes
War thunder players when a vehicle that takes a modicum of skill to use performs like dogshit in the average players hands… yea bro and water is wet-_-
I’m also sure having top tier aircraft that’s genuinely outclassed in most ways that matter relative to their pears also doesn’t help with that
M1A2 and Leopard 2A5: 2019.
T-80BVM: 2021.
Challenger 2E: 2023, and that’s arguably not an equivalent.
I can’t remember when m/95 was added to Strv 122s.
Type 10: 2021.
Ariete AMV: 2023, came with DM53.
France got equivalents with Benelux: 2024. 5 years after USA.
China was added long after, so I’m not counting them.
1 Like
The way I’ve always looked at the Abrams is it has a lot of passive advantages that when used by different players, will give different results. In the hands of a bad or below average player, it won’t perform well. In the hands of an above average player, it performs extremely well. Most people who do badly in it don’t utilize the strengths of the vehicle in conjunction with whatever map they are playing on. Long range is where the Abrams is an absolute pain in the ass to deal with, where as brawling in CQC is where the Abrams tends not to fare as well. Is it a bad tank? No. Is it the best tank? Top 3 but not No. 1.
See that’s the thing with American tanks starting in ww2. They aren’t the best at anything but are pretty good at everything. And that’s what makes them overall really good. A skilled player can always exploit some aspect they have over an opponent to win. But US mains never do that and act surprised when the good old hold w and shoot center mass strat fails
1 Like
This kind falls into what I’ve said about the Abrams for many years. It has a high skill cap but also has a high entry point. An above avg player will do well with it and skilled players can perform their best in it. But it is not friendly to the avg player. The T series tanks are friendly to the avg player but cap out before the Abrams.
I do feel if the Abrams was to get certain buffs it would completely over shadow the T series tanks. The only thing i ever wanted to see with the v2 was removable ERA and they did that. So i think it is fine as is.
Your argument is specious. Any player in any tank at any BR is capable of killing anyone at the same BR.
Is Abrams capable of killing any of the tanks at its BR? Obviously, yes. The difference between Abrams and something like the T-90 is in how easy it is to achieve that kill. A T-90 can, in most circumstances, very easily just “hold w and shoot center mass” as you so aptly put it and can be relatively assured of doing some kind of critical damage to an Abrams, if not outright killing it. Abrams, meanwhile, has to be very specific in shot placement in order to actually damage something important on a T-90.
Abrams demands a higher skill level than basically every other top tier MBT thanks to how it’s been modeled, which is then obviously going to translate to a statistics difference. If two players of a roughly similar average skill level fight each other, most of the time the one in the Russian tank is going to win.
The bottom line is that high tier Russia is braindead easy to play and the more pleasant for it. Maybe I’m in the minority here, but I don’t always want to have to put in Esports-level skill and effort just to get a decent result.
1 Like
Their tanks probably have the most flaws that’ll throw off new players so I doubt you’re correct here.
Colour me surprised when I found out this player has never played a single Russian Rank VIII MBT, and only 11 battles in a Rank VII MBT.
6 Likes
I would only point out that depending where the two players were to lie in terms of “skill” (e.g. eqivicate based on similar K/D) it may invert at some point, but with Statshark not actually publishing a dataset (as far as I know; it’s not publicly released, even if it was further anonymized) so being unable to generate a Cumulative Distribution Function for each tank for comparison purposes, it’s hard to tell where exactly things lie as to which would be better where for what segment of the population, since averages are only a single (if poor) measure to gauge a population, a 40th, or 75th percentile approach to balancing would probably “improve” things markedly for some segment of the population.
Getting an actually reliable dataset out of ground RB is realistically impossible since the presence of aircraft throws a wrench into the whole thing. Is a Leopard 2 player who spawns in and then immediately gets blown up by a Kh-38t a result of a skill issue? I kinda doubt it, but it will still color the overall statistics.
I imagine that’s why so many of the balancing decisions Gaijin makes seem insane. Although they have access to all the data they want, how they choose to interpret is where the process falls apart. Probably the only way to get a real picture would be to have a ground-only mode and make matches fully mixed, with players of every nation on both teams.
If you’re saying Chinese players do better, I WONDER why that is…hmmmmmm. My stats on the m1a2t are sig better than on US versions.
Well, it would still permit some level of comparison, so be somewhat useful.
Considering the repeated changes to maps to remove camping & climb spots and turning maps into corridors, it’s fairly obvious that they have some capability to generate heat maps, which they can use to poke them in the “right” direction.
Arcade is probably the closet proxy that there will ever be to a (mixed) tank only mode, and the reason Aircraft are included to provide some level of prevention of a map becoming static where one player practically locks down a critical sightline, due to control of “Power Positions” and so become too hard to dislodge. Since the Blue team constantly has lone wolves and glue sniffers, somehow.
It’s the same reason as to why the “Other Game” still has player controlled Non-Line of Sight Arty with a “gods eye” perspective.
So in the end it yet again comes down to both map and objective design that lets down the mode.
Funnily enough, the exact opposite happens. Look at the Japanese Oplot or the French Leopard 2A6. The 2A6 started out at 1.65 K/D and dropped down to a 1.3 k/d now
2 Likes