Actually, it is equally hard to do, as the xp required for ace are only half as much for the free vehicles as for premiums. And with a talisman, it takes half the time of the premium. Just saying.
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do you people just like arguing for the sake of it?
how tf does you getting ace in 10 picoseconds matter in any way, the average (even a good) player doesn’t have every aced tank on the block (because it still takes 10 billion goddamn years)
of course, a good paypig- scuse me, paying customer doesn’t need to reload slower than others, they can just buy gilded roosters)))
why are you people opposed to crew changes anyway? its literally 100% a good change, nothing bad in that
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to me its crazy that people somehow defend this p2w shit with “just grind harder”
yeah bro I’ll just become a good little grindslave… should i buy a talisman too? should i just spend money in every goddamn tank just to not be outreloaded by some autoloading shmuck?
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There are a few interesting points in this discussion.
First of all, in my opinion, the manual vs autoloader reload mechanic is clearly unfair and shouldn’t work this way in a competitive PvP game. At the same time, I understand that the crew XP system is part of Gaijin’s monetization model for a free-to-play game.
There are two possible ways to make this system fairer.
The first option would be to remove the effect of Expert/Ace crews from manually loaded vehicles, as the OP suggested. However, this would directly affect one of Gaijin’s revenue streams. There are players who only use aced crews - and no, they don’t grind them. They buy them and enjoy the advantage they provide. Faster reload rates are a major part of that advantage. The chance that Gaijin would remove or significantly change this system is extremely low. I understand that Expert/Ace crews provide more benefits than just reload speed, but let’s be honest: reload speed is one of the main reasons people invest in them.
The second option would be to allow crew skills to affect autoloaded vehicles as well. Before anyone argues that this would be unrealistic because autoloaders are machines: War Thunder is a game, and many parts of the modification and crew skill systems are already completely unrealistic. In reality, no one would put you in a vehicle and tell you that you’ll get better ammunition or a second fire extinguisher after killing 50 enemies. Likewise, a new crew member’s eyes wouldn’t suddenly fail to spot an enemy tank simply because it’s “too far” for their current experience level. Vitality is another skill that makes little sense from a realism perspective - an experienced crew member doesn’t magically survive multiple bullets to the chest just because he has more experience.
This system clearly isn’t designed for realism. It exists to generate revenue. Crew skills affecting autoloaders wouldn’t cost Gaijin any money - if anything, it could even benefit them - and it would at least make the game more balanced. That said, I’m fully aware that many players would strongly oppose this solution, so my prediction is that nothing will change.
Another interesting topic is the cost of an Ace crew. In my opinion, this is something that really should be adjusted. For example, to spade every ground vehicle in the American tech tree, you currently need 8,318,370 RP in total. However, to Ace the crew on all of them, you need 54,534,000 RP. On average, that means each vehicle has to be effectively “spaded” 6.6 times just to earn an Ace crew. That’s far too much. In my opinion, it should be closer to 1.5 times at most.
Personally, my playstyle is to spade a vehicle and then move on to the next one. Sometimes I return to vehicles I enjoyed to complete a harder challenge or task, but in general I don’t play thousands of battles in a single vehicle. Apart from Naval, I’ve never managed to earn a free Ace crew on any vehicle above rank II. And I only have two aced crews on rank III naval vessels. Earning an Ace crew for free simply requires too much effort. Spading a vehicle already takes a long time, and needing to do the equivalent of 6.6 spades just to Ace a crew is excessive.
This requirement is unlikely to be reduced, because it’s another monetization system. It’s not a coincidence that the numbers are set so high. Gaijin knows that the average player won’t earn an Ace crew through normal gameplay. To do so, you need to focus on a single vehicle and play hundreds, if not thousands, of battles. That slows overall tech tree progression significantly. Buying an Ace crew with GE essentially saves time.
I hope I’m wrong, but honestly, I don’t expect any changes in this area.
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You’re very welcome to ask further questions if you have trouble understanding anything.
Yes if Gaijin uses reload for balancing decisions then at the very least ace and expert need to not influence reload speed so the balancing decisions are correct and don’t get falsified by the playerbase having wildly different reloads.
Not necessarily. Those things affect both types of tanks. Reload affects only one.
No idea what you wanted to say with that paragraph.
Yeah I do but a T58 has about the same rp needed for ace as a top tier normal tank but without bonuses so what’s your point? If you did the same speed with a clickbait or something like that that would be a good comparison.
Great so it’s not nearly as achievable for the average, employed player
And those are not paywalled?
Also you guys still seem to not understand that it’s not a question of „making autoloaders worse“ but a simple balancing question for both types. If gaijin uses the aced crew vehicle to judge balancing then its unfair for everyone without an aced crew and if Gaijin uses general winrates which are mostly made up by non aced vehicles then its unfair for autoloaded vehicles, because the aced manually loaded tank overperforms in comparison.
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A talisman is an actual paywall
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Reload is apart of balancing as is reload speed.
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Your comment “reload only affects one” is non sense reload affects BOTH and with “P2W” as you put it, crew skills actually given more benefit to the manually loaded tanks, and NOT to the auto loaded ones. Also, auto loaded tanks only get typically a faster reload against not experted tanks. So should auto loaded crews load faster at ace crew then
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Basic crew → ace literally is a varying experience from crew to crew which means no two tanks will be exactly the same which is a good thing. Imagine three tigers all shoot at you in A m4a3e2… and they all fire at the same time, but they have varying crews. One is ace, the next is expert, and the third is basic. Is may give you a chance since they all don’t have 7.4 sec reloads and true to real life, every tank crew isn’t always preforming the same. Just like how I out preform most people and don’t have an ace crews in most tanks / planes / naval vessels.
Ngl I wish the OP put who voted on his questionaire
It’s quite literally stated that reload is used as a balancing measure what are you talking about?
The reload crew skill only affects manually loaded tanks?
Actually crew skills are benefiting autoloaded tanks more since you can ignore reload speed pretty much freeing more points for things like repair etc.
Stating that a value integral to balancing being wildly different is a good thing is an interesting take
How so ?
Gaijin looks at the efficiency of the vehicle and if it’s too low for their liking they might buff the vehicle’s reload speed. When that is done, your reload speed improves regardless if you have lvl 0 crew or Ace, so literally every player benefits from that.
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Because
I’m not talking about balance issues between manually loaded tanks but between manually and automatically loaded ones. Depending on which metric gaijin uses one will overperform over what gaijins intended balance state is
While we’re here, we’d like to give some additional context behind Battle Ratings and how they’re decided. Battle Ratings are decided based on how much a vehicle earns, but this is not purely economical. We use this metric because it’s all encompassing and considers every action a player makes with their vehicle, so this considers frags, assists, caps, and effectively every useful action a vehicle can perform all bundled into one universal metric.
This is the “Efficiency” of each vehicle and gives us a very well rounded perspective on all of its abilities and how it’s actually being used.
This is what Gaijin said on how they balance things, so if we assume majority of players use max non-Expert crews or below, someone with an Expert or Ace crew will be privileged and have a vehicle that’s better “than expected”.
I’ve looked through last 3-4 months worth of stats for 2A6/PSO (~6.9s reload speed) and SEP/V2 (~5.7s reload speed). The latter pair performed better and this could be an indication former two might need a reload buff to compete.
That said, 2A7V wipes both groups out of the water, so buffing it’s average reload would be really bad.
Removing reload speed from Ace/Expert crew would be a balancing nightmare for Gaijin, as plenty of vehicles would get a significant increase in performance/efficiency.
Does an abrams reload rate directly or indirectly affect a T-80U?
Answer? Yes.
Say the abrams has a 100 sec reload or 1 sec reload.
It will make the T-80U or any tank it faces more or less cautious, and make the enemy tank more or less lethal.
Secondly, fully auto loaded tanks do not benefit from ace crews.
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Exactly that’s a balancing problem since especially people with expert and ace crews are not the ones needing more advantages.
True the initial change would be problematic and would probably need some kind of preventive change but after that using reload speed as a balancing measure would be vastly easier and yield better results.
No idea where you got that from, because I am not.
My argument applies to every autoloaded tank.
Yeah but I am not. I’m saying that it’s a problem when reloads vary vastly depending on a mechanic that’s hardly accessible for the average player.
Please do point to the part where i said this
No, they are generally not paywalled. I won over 50 over the years and gained several more from the warbond store.
Talismans over rank 5 are currently “GJNwalled”, as they can’t be obtained for warbonds and I have never won a rank 6+ talisman iirc.
Do you have a link to an official statement or to data for this?
So they are essentially paywalled. Really glad that we went over this
This would also disrupt the balancing of who knows how many vehicles, which is something that Gaijin definitely would need to address and spend their time doing that.
People often overlook the importance of Repairing skill.
You repairing your barrel 10 seconds faster than a dude who doesn’t have Ace is a clear gameplay advantage and a big one at that.
I mean, at this point you could give autoloaded tanks their extra crew member that just floats there for survivability reasons, as it might be unfair that some tanks have 4 and some have 3 crew. Vehicles should be allowed to be different in gameplay and mechanics, not just looks.
It could benefit them monetary but as you said, many people might not like it for different reasons so I doubt it’d be a worthwhile change for Gaijin. I’m also for a balanced game but only after all things are considered, so looking at singular metrics in a vacuum isn’t my cup of tea.
Me neither.
I think Gaijin agrees with us here as well, because I genuinely think that risk vs reward is simply not there to justify changes you described in your post.
Expert is certainly not behind a paywall.
Is fun to have to grind 1.200.000RP after expert for an single top tier mbt to get free ace. expert and ace should count for the crew slot and every vehicle you field on that slot imo
Ok expert is not behind a paywall it’s just millions of SL for a top tier lineup. You happy now?
Well, I think system is made to benefit those players and people are taking advantage.
Going for an Ace crew is time consuming for a reason, they want you to pay up to enjoy tanks that are definitely better than what stats and balancing shows.
I mean, where would you put 2A7V and the likes with their 6s reload basically out of the box ?
You can’t move them up because there are no BRs left.
Would you move manually loaded tanks up ?
Would you move autoloaded tanks down ?
Or both ?
I doubt Gaijin is ready to do that and possibly screw up some of their tiers for basically no monetary gain.
That’s exactly what Gaijin wanted out of this.
Pay up to have a better tank than the average joe.
Predatory mechanics get their name for a reason.
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