While the idea of national tech tree is one of the core concept of many of games this type, as the current things stand, in my opinion, it would be much more fluid and flexible if all national tech trees are complied into one sole tech tree, similar to the Ace Combat 7 tech tree which, despite having aircrafts from several nations, it has only 1 unified tech tree.
By having one sole unified tech tree, it would allow the players to
- create line up/preset with varieties, such as combining Soviet aircraft with US ground and British Navy
- More path and flexibility when it comes to choosing which to research next, no more having to worry about switching nation to play the one you like while having the thought of needing to grind certain tech tree biting the heel.
On the other hand, it would allow the Devs to
- Add minor nations without the need of choosing specific tech tree or creating the new tech tree dedicated to specific nation in general
- More varieties and types of premium + allowing players to look for premium vehicles without switching nations, encouraging more spending without worrying about if they want to play that tech tree or not (Ex. I want to buy and play A-10 Early, but because I want to grind Israeli tech tree, I would be a little bit more reluctant to spend the money)
Regarding historical and realistic engagements, instead of tagging nations by tech trees, the game would instead tag the nation via the vehicles. Such approach would allow the game to create more varied and realistic engagements or skirmishes (Ex, the cold war Berlin skirmish would see US+West Germany vehicles vs USSR+East Germany vehicles, not the mixed of all 4)
That’s just my idea, what do y’all think?
I don’t mean to be that guy. But this is never happening. Ever. Like never ever. This game is based off separate countries. Combining them would make one beautifully massive mess.
Just isn’t necessary since they’re planning to add a system which rewards you with a bonus for having research other tech trees to encourage you to try new ones.
No offense, but just saying never thought I’d miss having the Confused Emoji
The absolute size of this tree would singlehandedly discourage any player from grinding it. We have more than 1500 at the moment, it would be unreadable and just enormous. Never happening.
I like every idea which shows the ability for abstract thinking - call it “out of the box” thinking.
You try to solve the obvious Nations / Trees / Sub-Trrees problem by eliminating single trees and sub-trees.
Interesting but unlikely if you see that US/RU/Germany are representing the biggest player groups and just from a psychological pov a single tree is overwhelming and not suited to create acceptable progress levels in order to keep players encouraged to play the game.
This game needs especially regarding nations, trees and area brackets a real revolution in order to survive - we have from my point of view (more or less, depending on BR) just a random vehicle clash without any connection to irl events.
I mean gaijin implements sub-trees simply to earn money and allocates minor nations or vehicles mainly on income projections and obviously sometimes just on a case-by-case decision; historical, technological or cultural similarities play imho only a role if they are suited to “sell” a decision.
So from my perspective the Nation set-up needs to be changed - meaning that the player can combine in his line up certain nations that make sense (and maybe switch them) at various point of times - so without adding sub-trees and attaching one Nation fixed to another.
Without a strong connection of irl events to the game the majority of players can’t be emotionally attached to the game - as soon as they realize that it makes no sense to fight together with vehicles they were designed to destroy against vehicles to support or complement (like A6Ms & F6Fs fight 109s & P-51s) the ultimate question “Why” can’t be answered…
I agree with separate nations - as seen in my last post.
The key is imho to find the right balance of nations and game play. From a holistic pov the main problem of this tree/sub-tree nonsense is that gaijin tries to balance minor played nations with vehicles (or captured premiums) or to fill gaps in line-ups with sub-trees just purely from an income perspective.
Their reasoning regarding bundling some nations are historical, technological or cultural connections, but we have enough indicators (=deviations) that these are strawmen points. With the current approach you can simply earn more.
The game is killing itself with the current approach - it makes no sense if you can use identical vehicles in various nations to fight identical vehicles from other nations.
Example: As an US pilot you can buy the captured Bf 109F-4 to fight with or against the identical plane flown by Italy and Germany - and you meet very similar Bf 109G-2s from Germany, Romania and Finland.
The longer you think about this, the more you see that anything trying to find a workaround for the main problem is not solving the root cause for this mess.
A possible solution would be to separate nations completely, but allow the players to combine those nations in their line-ups based on a selected time frame you want to play.
If you take Italy for example: Until 1943 you should be allowed to combine them with German line- ups, from 1943-45 to German and Allied line ups and after 1945 solely as Nato power.
Or Germany 1945-1989 - those were 2 different Nations trained to kill each other as part of their alliances. China and Taiwan in the same tree, their prop fighters killed each after 1945 and might have conflicts in the future.
Anyway, i hope some smart guys find a solution to cover gajins’ interest in earning money and players’ interests to have at least some kind of realism in their game play…
Let’s be real - the reason it is never happening is because it would hurt their sales of premium vehicles if you could research everything with just one.
Bruh. all 1500 vehicles in one tree. not happening
It’s a nice thought but i believe the current state with nations are better, both for easier tech trees but also beeing able to represent a nation or certain vehicles that are specific for one nation is for me more valuable and fun.
As someone who has played Ace Combat since he was like… 7? 8? Whenever it came out on the PS2, probably about 20 years ago, AC4.
No. Fundamentally different games. I’ve played a fair few MMO plane simulators and the entire business model is different. Warthunder relies on long term player retention, like most MMOs. Ace Combat relies on delivering a really fun 40-100 hour experience. Completely different game designs.
I will say a… 8th? 9th? 10th? Whatever number we are on tree for the “rest of the world” wouldn’t be bad.
You could have Brazilian planes, Mexican planes, Swiss planes (and yes all of those nations had some domestic designs) along with a host of others. Just call it the mercenary tree or something. Czech Avis Biplanes, Polish PZL Parasol Wing planes. Spanish 109s and I-16s flying side by side. Etc.
Edit- EKW C-36. That’s what I was thinking of. Such a beautiful plane.
Do you realize it would take 10x longer to reach top tier?
Imagine how it could be so great to take the USSR decks and improve them with the few over powered vehicle of other countries.
This would be like China tech trees : a real loss of interest.
Hopefully this won’t ever happen. When you see they don’t want to allow to use Finish KV1-B in Sweden decks or French planes of the British tech tree in a deck of France planes you have the idea.
I’ve seen some stupid stuff posted on the fourms before, this just about takes cake, I think i would need something more than the confused emote, but I would say at the very least it’s still less stupid than the suggestion made on the old fourms to change the game to have a subscription that would lock most of the game’s content behind a paywall just to be able to research, that kind of change would actually make backlash from the economy changes look like child’s play, still doesn’t make the idea of this suggestion though any better, because this would make the world of tanks grind look not too bad I think in comparison.
It’s not a terrible idea, in that, no tree is really that unique anymore, and matchmaking is everyone vs everyone, often with the same team on both sides.
But I don’t think there’s a way to realistically implement it, we’d still need some sort of division so that everything isn’t just one big grindfest and so that each player can have the sense of still grinding through a specific country.
Mhm - different people, different tastes…
Despite i like your general pov on this topic, if the EKW C-36 would be a child, you might see why unconditional mother-love was added to our genetic code…
If you follow the forum for years a bunch of more individual Nations would end a hell of discussions within the community - just look at the Swiss Hunter discussion:
Without taking a side in this debate, i read this thread daily to see what kind of efforts were made by each side in order to justify their claims. At the end of the day nothing changed, but within this discussion countless examples were made how vehicle allocations of “minor” played nations or allocation of sub-trees affects game play.
In addition it is logical that you find in a war game people which want to see some historical or potential conflicts with correct vehicles for certain point of times.
And last, but not least, there is always some kind of national pride or patriotism involved, as long this is on a “healthy” level, there is nothing wrong with that.
So individual nation trees with a kind of dynamic assignment to other nations via the matchmaker and connected to BRs allowing mixed line-ups at certain point of times would eliminate a hell of discussions regarding balancing, matchmaking, game play and patriotism…
I personally dont see this, but the exact opposite. Lineups would becomes MUCH more similar…taking arcade as an example “everyone” would use the same 3 vehicles at BR3.7 (or any BR). There would be a time period to define the “meta”…and then the players would converge on the same vehicles…
AT LEAST now we have to choose from the same nation…so different lineups…
I only see this working in arcade battles. realistic would have to stay seperated
i think this would work better if we still had separate tech trees, but with cross lanes, so if i unlock lets say german IV rank, i can from there grind soviet IV rank and continue grinding soviet V rank without having to play all soviet ranks from beginning.