Top tier stuff has nowhere to go as long as 12.0 is the maximum BR.
APHE slingers in mid tiers definitely have room to get up or down.
Personally only maximum battle rating cap should be considered, this could balance things out itself instead of relying on internal and more complex change (like damage logic for specific types of ammunition) which could be added however it could take a time and eventually slows down easier changes (i.e. maximum battle rating).
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I appreciate yall speaking your mind about my proposal for aphe changes, but please be more civil. I personally am fine with aphe being a nuke round, as long as it comes from an actual cannon.
To be the most clear as I can, I only proposed that aphe fired from autocannons 57mm and under should get the aphe changes…
Something I’d like to see more of is you guys’ own ideas. :3
In regards to that last part;
People do have a right to complain about autocannon aphe being overpowered. Not only because they are allowed to complain about whatever they want, but also because they were voting to not change aphe because they wanted to keep the consistency of aphe. However, I have no doubt that they can also see the argument for autocannon aphe to not perform just as well as larger aphe.
In other words, they were arguing for something other than keeping the high damage of 35mm aphe.
And remember, consistency is the most valuable thing in wt, that’s why people prefer aphe in the first place, and why apfsds is such a great round, even when they at times have worse penetration than heat. So of course people would like to keep it.
(don’t be mean, id be sad 3: )
Autocannons can lose their historical rounds if and when all vehicles in War Thunder lose filler ammo.
Gepard is BR’d based on that factor currently. APHE helps deal with armored planes more than it helps side pen unaware enemies.
Is that why the Gepard has almost double the amount of ground kills compared to air kills per spawn/death?
Notoriety brings popularity, and people not watching their flanks grants free frags.
An actual menace to players, and it’s still weaker than MBTs:
I was never suggesting that they lose their rounds. I was suggesting that they be less effective at taking out tanks
Not applying the same standards to autocannon light tanks while seeking to restrict/punish AA is pure hypocrisy, man.
An autocannon vehicle is an autocannon vehicle in my book.
But I did say that I would make the change for any autocannon 57mm and under. You misread,
just because I replied to a guy who was only talking about spaa does not mean that I would only make the change for spaa.
Before you even try to say that I didn’t
Upon reading what you originally said in detail, punishing autocannons but not otherwise-identical low-caliber guns found at low BR is also frankly discriminatory against the autocannons.
Yes, autocannons can be annoying, but the only reason they are as effective as they are is due to:
- Shoebox maps allowing them to get into spitting distance
- Barrel damage existing at all
- Volumetric shells not interacting properly with old 2D plate armor models found on the majority of tanks.
- Obvious bugs like the “rolling tank phasing desync glitch” and the “volume of fire overloading server” glitch.
- For ones with APHE, the APHE sphere of death damage model in general.
Personally I would go just 2) remove barrel damage from the entire game - suddenly all those SPAAG going TD mode cannot cripple things they can’t pen normally first. It’d also help out heavy tanks, derp guns, and encourage stats on overtiered heaviums like the Jumbo to drop their BRs now that they can’t barrel their way out of otherwise unwinnable circumstances.
Yes, I am saying that autocannons should be worse than manual loaded cannons.
Why? Because autocannons by their nature fire much faster than manual loaded cannons.
I made the distinction because low tier tanks that have low calibre cannons should not suffer simply because a nerf to a system beyond their battle rating was introduced.
Autocannons are overpowered, low calibre aphe is not. That is why I say to exclude manual loaded aphe.
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The moment I found myself agreeing with alwis
APHE nerf yes.
I would say they need something like a overhaul though an actual overhaul would be too much work. There is right now 0 reasons to play planes other than the few op ones Yes ofc I know F58 &c from ~8.0 all the way to 12.3. CAP and CAS, also Rocket Heli. (excluding new fnf, too new for any conclusions)
They’ve messed up early/mid coldwar SPAA probably bcs of the heli against gepards and 10.3 hellfires. who knows
Also the lowering GRB BR is pure mistake. Lowering CAP would make A2A compressed and lowering CAS will just make everyone else suffer (and right now compressed also). Ground ofc, and SPAAs can stay at a lower BR so that only op planes are working.
I still remember separated BRs are willed for the performance issues attackers have in ARB.
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I appreciate the feedback.
I don’t think I explained what the aircraft br section was about well enough…
What I meant for it was that aircraft in grb should have a more balanced br for what they can do; for example, a fighter with no hope of ground attack should be at a grb br that suits its capabilities against other aircraft, whereas a ground attack craft should have a grb br that has a competitive chance against spaa, but not a dominating chance.
Sorry if there was any confusion, faults on me.
(edit) Typo and; this is basically saying to balance the br more, which is kinda pointless to say ngl because that should be a given
Indeed :D though some minor (or not just minor) trims towards GRB meta would be nice, e.g. lower the energy bricks and heavy bombers without 5 tons for our propeller BRs
At the end of the day, it’s better to have realistic APHE than to apply double standards.
If Tiger E players have to deal with me hitting their cupola, I should have to deal with flanking Gepards; It’s only fair until APHE is corrected.
My level of anger around the APHE situation is high, because it would’ve made ALL heavy, medium, and light tanks slightly more resilient to APHE rounds while changing nothing about APHE’s post-pen when penned center mass.
@Creastroy
I have major issues in communication, but when I do well I portray myself as agreeable which is what I prefer.
I think this specific double standard is fine though.
If not because of starting a standard that could eventually be expanded and improved upon, but also because as of now it is not only a problem when you get flanked.
As someone who has a lot of experience with things like the marksman and the falcon, even I can see that their performance is unbalanced and not fair against the enemy.
Cupola shots with an actual cannon is one thing, but being able to one shot an mbt with a small aphe round, from any angle might I add, is not fun to play against. And at the end of the day, fun should be what matters more than if a double standard should exist.
Fun for both players. Killing things with spaa is fun, but my victims are not having fun when they get randomly penned by a round that bounced off their barrel into the front of their tank and die because of it.
Having the aphe changes only apply to autocannons would effectively eliminate the “bs” kills that infuriate many, while keeping the parts of aphe people like.
(edit) And don’t down yourself about communication skills. I was able to understand your point of view fine, even if I disagree with it.
No double standard ideas are fine.
It’s a slippery slope, and will give “Russian bias” arguments that much more commonality.
If you just keep eyes and ears open, a SPAA will never frag your MBT or heavy tank, and rarely your light tank.
Well yes, any attent player can deal with these spaa, but the problematic part is when you are not attent.
Lets give an example:
An mbt misses their first shot on you when they caught you off guard, you get a chance to fight back.
An spaa misses their first burst on you, they then correct and you are dead.
It’s more fun and interesting when there is some sort of counterplay, yes the fault is on the player for not noticing the enemy, but it is not fun to have zero chance to fight back when the enemy messes up too.
(edit) let me clarify, yeah even with the changes you would be dead if it was a flank, but this happens more often that you think even in the front aspect.