8,8 cm Flak 36 L/56 auf Pz IV Ausf.H

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I would like to suggest this oddball of a field / workshop modification, a Pz IV Ausf.H (or F) where the superstructure was taken off and a elevated 8,8 cm Flak 36 L/56 was placed on it.

In game it would be similar to the 12 cm Chi Ha LG, however with a higher fire rate and less armor, the whole crew would be exposed, including driver and possible radio crew member.

The history is pretty much unknown of this specific vehicle, however it appears that at least 2 were build, one captured in the Netherlands and the other (on the pictures) at the Pilsen Airfield in Czechoslovakia.

While there are a couple of pictures of it, it doesn’t really show the whole of it, as it appears to have been already scavenged or in the process, because lots of parts were missing, such as the right track, muffler, tools. It could also have had a gunshield before, which would offer some protection.

Where the ammo is stored is also not clear, it could have been stored instead of the Radiomen in the hull to the right, overall that doesn’t affect the possibility, as like the Chi Ha LG, Gaijin could take some artistic freedom for the ammo storage, as well as with the Ammo crate it will certainly be enough.

As written above it is simply a Pz IV Ausf.H, where the Turret and superstructure (except Engine compartment) was removed and a Flak 36 placed in the middle, creating a mobile AA/AT platform. Unlike the dedicated platform VFW this does not have a workspace platform/walls extension and by the pictures less protection. A makeshift travel lock was fixed to the back hull.

History of the Gun:

The 8,8 cm Flak 36 was a prewar development, for the Heer, Luftwaffe and Marine, based on the Flak 16, which in return was developed on the earlier already in WW1 used 8,8 cm SK L/45 gun, which also found its way on the Benz Gaggenau Typ 5 Plattformwagen mit 8,8 cm SK L/45.
While the L/45 was still used in limited numbers at the start of the war, the L/56 would take on the roll of a legendary Dual Purpose gun.

Development started by German developers, at the Swedish company Bofors, to be outside of the Versailles treaty. The Company Krupp AG, bought parts of Bofors in the late 1920s. Where at first the 7,5 cm Flak L/60 was created, which would be used in low numbers by Germany, but would split in 2 directions, upscaled to the 8,8 cm Flak L/56 and with longer barrel as the 7,5 cm KwK 42 L/70.
Though the L/60 gun found interest with the Swedes, Japanese, Spanish and more in one form or another.

The 8,8 cm Flak as found in game has a wide array of ammo (actually more than in game, including the ammo of the Tiger I E, as well as more AA rounds, such as the 8,8 cm Br.Schrap.Gr. for 8,8 cm Flak 37 L/56.

The Pz IV was one of the main tanks of the German army, in production from before till the end of the war, it found itself in a wide array of different forms, armaments and platforms and rolls.


Pictures:(Click to show)

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The Gun:
8,8 cm Flak 36 L/56
-3° to +85°, 360° traverse.
4-5 sec reload, unknown ammo amount.

Ammo Types: Apcbc, Apcr, He, Heat (Click to show)

Ap:


Pzgr. (Apcbc) 9,5 kg 160g Fp.02 and Np.10 (215,04g) 810 m/s 154mm/10m

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Pzgr.39 (Apcbc) 10,2 kg 64g Fp.02 and Np.10 (108,8g) 773m/s 165mm/10m

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Pzgr.40 (Apcr) 7,3 kg 35x140mm 1,93 kg core 930m/s 211mm/10m

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Gr.39 Hl (Heat) 7,64 kg 650g H.10 (1,1kg) 600 m/s 110mm/all

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He:


Sprgr. L/4,5 (He-TF (No Tracer)) 9 kg 900g Fp.02 and Np.10 820m/s 18mm/10m 13mm/all

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Br.Schr.Gr. (Shrapnell Incendary-TF (No Tracer)) 9kg Filler see inside Spoiler 820m/s

Expelling Charge: 56g Smokeless powder
Bursting Charge: 114g Amatol
Incendiary Pellets: 72x of 30mm x 15mm
Made of Barium Nitrate, Magnesium Alloy, Aluminium Alloy, Acid Insoluble
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The Vehicle:
Pz IV Ausf.H Hull
Armor: 80/30/20mm / Front/Side/back (50mm front if Ausf.F)
Crew:5 (Driver, 4 gun crew, like in game)
Speed: 38 km/h or more, duo to weight loss
Engine: 300 Ps / 3000 RPM HL120TRM

Source:
Panzer Wrecks Lee Archer and William Auerbach
Munition der 8,8 cm Flak
W127 Dokumentation der Heeres- Waffen, Gerät und Fahrzeuge
Pictures from the internet and EBay

2 Likes

+1 Absolutely. An internet classic when it comes to improvised German vehicles. I’d love to see it in the tree but wouldn’t mind at all if it was added some other way.

2 Likes

So… a FlaK bus that isn’t on a horrible chassis?

Hmmmmmmm… has potential.

2 Likes

The Flak 36 is an excellent gun, and having some more vehicles with it in-game would be great. +1.

1 Like

Sort of similar to the VFW, just with the short 88 and no shields. Neat!

1 Like

Very sketch, images are possibly faked combined with lack of data = no

2 Likes

Yeah it’s way too obscure.

No idea where ammunition would be stowed, no clue how the crew would be able operate the gun.

Maybe they stand at the hull floor and can only target air targets due to the height difference or it can only be reloaded when the gun faces a set direction.

I dont see how the images are sketchy, there are multiple from different sides. Not just the gun, but also the makeshift travel lock at the back is visible on different angles.
But fine if you think so, idc lol.

1 Like

I WANT IT NOW PLEASE Gaijin !!!

2 Likes

Conciddering a US soldier poses with it on the seat, and considdering the general height, i really dont see a problem? It appears to be mounted on its standart podest, which is mounted on the floor, so why would it be too high?

1 Like

You can see that there’s no platform.

You can’t even reload the gun when it’s facing 90° to either side unless you stand at the edge of the side platform.

The chassis is simply too small for the gun to be effective.

And you know that WT doesn’t model any crew animations, so it would simply be impossible to even have a loader behind the gun when it’s rotating.

Meh, then he gets up on the fenders, but doesnt really matter anyway. Or depending on height and arm length he can reach the breech from the vehicle floor.

1 Like

Idk, maybe what we’re seeing there is only the remains of what the vehicle used to be.

There’s already the VFW. So it would potential be the same just with the short 88 and made in the field instead of an actual prototype.

But there simply to little information to implement it.
Maybe it was a VFW with the FlaK 36 but already stripped apart or never completed.

Well certainly already stripped appart, on the different pictures already is continued stripping visible. Generally parts are missing.

2 Likes

You cant reload the ontos aswell without exiting the vehicle and it’s still ingame.

2 Likes