Statistics don’t “Lie” they also have no mouth and can’t tell stories directly. You have to have all the context and nuance of them to understand what they signal. What jets do you think I don’t do well in?
??? F-86A-5 is 8.0 and sees the entire jet bracket, so does MiG-15bis ISH. I also wasn’t solely referring to the Me-262, don’t know how you come to that conclusion. I said all early jets (so 7.0-8.0) do poorly when facing MiG-15 (any type, but especially bis) and F-86 (any type).
I do well in pretty much 99% of planes I play so it’s hard to believe you have found anything other than a few jets I played back in 2017-2020 when I was new. You can PM me if you want to continue that line of thought
You are not to use other peoples stats at all, this not up for debate as I said debate the topic not the user.
See below
OK, let me rephrase this for you so you may see how much of an issue we have, forget the full 1.0 br spread
Lets do 0.7. do you think the a5 sabre, mig15 can be competitive against the f2 sabre, mig17
Let’s assume you agree on that
Now, lets take the cl13, the mig17 and the f2 sabre and scale that up 0.6 against the f104, f106 and even just the su7
They don’t come close, they completely dictate the match because of the speed difference, they are able to ground pound and reduce tickets uncontested, get back to the airfield and reload twice as quick and just run away.
This is where the issue starts, and this is the whole point and what you are missing and if you cannot see that or willing to acknowledge that then I don’t know what to say. But then you did say a nf13 stands zero chance against an f86 or mig 15. Which btw, is so off the mark it’s incredible you even stated that with such confidence
How about a f40 against a mirage or f4c phantom, you think that is the same performance gap between an mig 15 and f40?
That’s where AIM-9Bs come into place
MiG-17s should face F-14s for historical accuracy
Dude the ME-262 is bad even in a downtier.
9.3 are pretty strong when using 8.3 but it’s not impossible. Still agree all 9.3 and above should probably go up a rating. F104 isn’t a big issue; you might never be able to kill him but he mostly can never kill you if you are watching yourself. The real issue ones are the ariete and f106 and mostly mig19.
The bigger issue is 9.3->10.3. The f6c having 20g missiles instead of 10g of mig19 and only being 0.3 rating higher is absurd. And the 10.3s rail everything even harder because for who knows why 0.3 gets you flares and more 20g missiles. Probably the most unbalanced plane rating in the whole game.
It’s not just 8.3-9.3. It’s everywhere.
Me-262’s fighting Mig-15’s and Sabres.
Mig 15’s and Sabres fighting early Mig 21’s and F104’s.
Early Mig-21’s and F104’s fighting late Mig-21’s, J7D, and F8U’s.
You get the idea. Compression is plaguing this game, and it’s getting exhausting. I wish Gaijin would listen to the community for once and actually do something about it.
I swear why are people so obsessed with comparing stats, being better won’t prove your point bruh
Aaaaaaand there we go
I’m not even gonna bother, there’s no way to take people like you down to have a proper conversation
It is everywhere, but from 8.3 onwards it is exacerbated. substantially. Which is what the original point of this thread was
I think you have also missed the point. This thread isn’t about missiles, you can dodge them easily with positioning. Although what you are saying is correct. It is not the point of this thread.
The point is performance and people getting themselves into bad situations that at any BR below would cause you to be punished, but because at this specific BR your performance has jumped so much that you are allowed to just get away with it. This makes the game boring as now you are just chasing these people around with zero counterplay unless they decide to engage
For example, the 163 vs yak28, saab 105 - su7 gap is so much worse than than an f80a vs mig15 non bis.
Another problem we have is that gaijin balances by win rates, and alot of attackers and bombers have low win rates so they get lowered, however, what gaijin don’t seem to think of is that attackers and bombers do not play to win the game, they just bomb and so of course they are going to have bad win rates because they are doing nothing (in general) to help the team. So you end up with extremely fast jets at a lower BR. It’s just dumb
I hate to say this, but being better 100% proves our point, and this is applied to everything in life.
Because, if someone is doing better than you in anything, does that mean there is an issue with ourselves, or the thing we are doing?
Answer, the issue is with ourselves because someone else is showing it can be done, and done well, and so for us to do the same thing well, we have to look at ourselves and make the changes in order to get success. This is 100% the same thing here.
My thought:
These discussions become everytime uncontrollable because there are always scenarios, we all remember, you can use as argument against another.
In my opinion we as a community should find parameters more solid than the ones GJN uses to balance BRs.
And one parameter could be the raw straight line speed vs ripspeeds.
The moment a plane has a straight line speed higher than the ripspeeds of all opponents, it’s atleast a stalemate. Now all the scenarios kick in, you can bring up to disprove it. Skill issue, dog fight capabilities, weaponry, what so ever. But for me the core is straight line speed.
Some of you maybe remember, I always wrote decompression has to start at 6.0. And straight line speed is the reason why. The first in my mind are He-162s. Another Yak-15s or Me-262 U4.
And now think about all these super sonic planes at “low” BRs. The reason why Su-7 is always in discussion, all the bombing dudes fly it and play around this strength most of the time by accident. So the reward system make it worse. But the core problem: straight line speed.
What you are saying is right, but I think thrust and acceleration is more of a problem.
the acceleration of certain jets at 9.0 and 9.3 is so insane compared to what they face makes it so they can make mistakes and get away unpunished and there’s nothing that a yak23 can against a 106 for example, this is the main underlying problem when it comes to what this thread is about
Even though straight line speed can be debated, it is not as much as an offender as what we see from 9.0 and 9.3 jets in a downtier
Of course all this is true, but it’s annoying that you guys bring it up instead of any other argument. Heck, you didn’t even have a proper conversation with me… Can’t we just discuss normally why you think it’s fine and why I think it’s not? When I’m good at a game I don’t shit my stats over everyone to invalidate their opinion instantly, I use facts, and I’m sure with how good you are you could easily explain all that.
I’d also add, bringing up my level isn’t the right argument as it shows only how much I’ve played the game and not a particular part of the game. Instead, what you should bring up is my absolute garbage stats at everything I’ve ever touched, that would be valid
I’d not offended, I’m annoyed because every debate systematically ends with “muhuh I’m better so shut up and agree with me” rather than actual arguments. It’s just pointless to argue then. VF was spitting over Corsair’s stats while both had some excellent stats, it’s not like one of them had a kd of 1
You guys are good, your skill lets you use your plane’s full potential to roll over people who don’t know the game well. But at equal skills the match isn’t fair, you in a MiG-15bis would surely annihilate you in a 262.
This is topic is closed I put more than enough warnings !
If you want to talk about BR’s use this topic here: [Discussion] Balance, Bias, Matchmaking and Battle Ratings - #2330 by tokerstar