T10m should have the reload buffed when using apds, the APHE is 25kg the apds is 4
Reload times can, have and should be adjusted for balance, and I think there is a very solid case here for the listed tanks and reloads. You’ll notice that most of them, even aced, are slower than the average gun at the BR, sometimes slower than the dead loader reloads. This means in a 1v1 fight, you’re still going to have the advantage over them. It just makes them more flexible when it comes to positioning.
Playing a tank with such a slow reload requires you to play more passively, preferably at mid/long range, and more or less requires team support to prevent you from being pushed on reload. This is particularly compounded for these tanks as they combine that reload with poor gun depression, poor penetration and/or poor post pen damage/accuracy (Conq). This further limits the positions you can take. This is all in order to balance armor which, as of the current gamestate, no longer consistently protects you against the tanks you’re going to be fighting. When these tanks were first introduced, they earned those reloads by being rolling bunkers. They cannot do that anymore, and I think a balance adjustment is needed.
Giving these tanks a reload buff will just make them more comfortable and flexible to play, and probably wouldn’t create too much of a balance issue either. Maybe some of them need a bit more care, the IS-6 is probably a bit fast, while the IS-3/4M are probably a bit slow. But it’s a good first draft.
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That’s just the weight of the projectile, not the entire round. I’m fairly certain the propellant, casing and sabot would put APHE into the same ballpark weight wise as APHE.
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The Conqueror is so goddamn trash, that it would still struggle with an 8s expert (not even aced) reload.
The Conqueror can lolpen the other 7.7s while being invulnerable to these same tanks while hull down.
While these reload could be achieved irl under ideal circumstances it’s mainly for balance reasons.
Playing a tank with such a slow reload requires you to play more passively, preferably at mid/long range […]
While true that at lower tiers that might be possible but at 7.7 they have to compete with something like an Ikv91 or VIDAR that get a LRF and much better reloads. For the IS tanks and T32s sniping doesn’t work when your gun can’t pen half of the tanks it faces even in a downtier.
You just described perfectly what i like to call, the “Conqueror-syndrome”.
It is basically "looking at the statcard of a vehicle, and from a few (or ususlly a single) stat concluding, that it must be OP/very good, while in reality it is crap.
First,you haven’T even played with it.
Now, to the issues of the tank:
The APDS on paper might LOLpens everything.
But you obviously only looked at the flat pen. The angle pen of the round is horrible.
It is also a carbide APDS, which shatters very often, and in the rare case when it actually pens, deals basically no damage. The HESH is, well, it is HESH, just forget about it.
About the “armor”. Any APHE at the BR can pen the mantlet. If it has overpressure capabilities, it will nuke the crew.
If not, hitting the right side of the mantlet, even with such weak APHE as the Panther’s, it will damage/blow up the ready rack ammo.
Cupola can also be penned by APHE.
Also, all the hatches are 17mm cast, so 16mm RHA effectiveness. Any explosive ammo with enough explosive to pen 16mm RHA will overpressure the crew if it explodes near the hatch. Most notably the driver’s hatch.
Just as an example, the french 100mm HE shells on their autoloaders will overpressure the tank if it hits the turret front above the driver’s hatch.
The turret roof is also big, flat, and only 31mm, so soviet 122mm, and alike will just HE overpressure it.
Hull and side armor also does not exists on the tank.
So yeah, it is horrible.
Here is a good video:
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It is basically "looking at the statcard of a vehicle, and from a few (or ususlly a single) stat concluding, that it must be OP/very good, while in reality it is crap.
Accusing me of only looking at statcards then stating this:
About the “armor”. Any APHE at the BR can pen the mantlet. If it has overpressure capabilities, it will nuke the crew.
The spall shield behind the mantlet stops the entire round 90% of the time. Killing or even taking out the breach isn’t possible with any round except for the 128mm full caliber shell with a lucky shot.
Also, all the hatches are 17mm cast, so 16mm RHA effectiveness. Any explosive ammo with enough explosive to pen 16mm RHA will overpressure the crew if it explodes near the hatch. Most notably the driver’s hatch.
Just as an example, the french 100mm HE shells on their autoloaders will overpressure the tank if it hits the turret front above the driver’s hatch.
The turret roof is also big, flat, and only 31mm, so soviet 122mm, and alike will just HE overpressure it.
You can’t just change to HE when you have a 20s+ reload while your enemy can pen you anywhere and is stabilized much less at range. The Conqeurors APDS is a lot faster than any APHE and it gets a rangefinder. Good luck trying to get the first shot of.
Hull and side armor also does not exists on the tank.
The only weakspot is the LFP the UFP equally as effective as the the one on the T32E1 or Tiger 2
Here is a good video:
It’s still possible to disable or kill any tank frontally if you shoot the breach or the ammo. If you aim for dead space of course you won’t hit anything. If he was in any other 7.7 heavy he’d be even worse of than in the Conqueror.
About the “armor”. Any APHE at the BR can pen the mantlet. If it has overpressure capabilities, it will nuke the crew.
If not, hitting the right side of the mantlet, even with such weak APHE as the Panther’s, it will damage/blow up the ready rack ammo.
Cupola can also be penned by APHE.
Almost impossible to pull of in a live game even with the angle mods of the BR-471B. With any other shell you shouldn’t even try to hit that.
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It can lolpen somewhat often, but the main issue is consistency. The round is prone to shatters, hates angled armor, and produces shockingly little spall, especially for lighter armored vehicles. Unless you hit ammo directly, it’s entirely possible to not cripple a tank you’re firing at. Leopards in particular can be a nightmare. The mantlet can shatter, the UFP can bounce the round if angled, and the side armor is so weak unless you nail the ammo you might only kill 1/2 crew. This won’t always happen of course, but the fact that it’s a dice roll is what makes the Conq so annoying to play.
Add on to this the fairly substantial inaccuracy at mid/long range, which makes those accurate ammo rack shots even harder, plus the reload of 20 seconds, and taking out spacious tanks and/or tanks at long range can be incredibly tedious. The armor is fine, the mobility is fine, the gun handling is fine, it’s just that combination of poor post pen damage, poor accuracy and long reload that kill the tank for me.
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If they were the M103 would have a 12 second aced reload and not 14.9. That giant turret existed for a reason.
Same for the poor Maus. Even more big turret, 2 loaders and need 23.6 seconds for load a 9.85 Kg shell.
Meanwhile the IS-6 loading a 25 kg shell in 2 parts only with 1 loader in and small cramped turret only 16 seconds…
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One of the loaders on the Maus is for the coaxial 75 mm cannon if I’m not mistaken. As well as the reload being made for the 128 mm rounds, not the 128/88.
The IS-6 I’ve read has a load assist device of some kind on top of being a premium tank.
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Maus and Jagdtiger use 2 loaders and same loading process so the second loader can assist the main gun or load the secondary.
I know, but looks like for Gaijin is “extremly difficult” just add a separate loading times…
Maus suffer the same love than another German tanks like the oversized colision model for completely useless S-minen launchers can block the Tiger 1 gun or the useless night vision device in Panther 2 only is there for block the main gun and made the tank more visible.
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Especially the long American 90mms that have an absurdly long reload because its 2 piece ammo. Definitely not good enough to warrant a 17 second reload
Those reloads are by far the worst part of those vehicles. Does anyone really think the T-26E1-1 would be OP at 6.7 if it had the same reload as a KT? Similar mobility, much worse armor… five seconds longer reload time.
Good point and even some of the other 6.7 reloads are also way too long. T26E1-1 or all IS-2s. The Super Pershing wouldn’t be too good even with a shorter reload as long as the hull armor is underperforming massively. If it had a similar hull with a similar gun and a trollier turret that has the downside of more weakspots it would be much better.
9kg is only the weight of the shell itself but when you consider the weight of the proppelant and the sabot it’s weight is similar to the full caliber 128mm.
Here you have the weights.
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Are you sure those numbers are correct? I don’t doubt it weighs less but thats quite a huge difference and info about this round is not always verifiable. Changing the reload based on the round used would be a nice feature for the Maus and it’s the same mechanic they use on some tanks that can fire ATGMs.