~7.7 heavy tanks desperately need a reload buff

Game Discussion Realistic Battle
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242

You have several issues with this.

First of all, the Sturmtiger. At best, it could fire 3x in a match. 4x, is like the absolute maximum for 99% of the matches.
The tank would be unplayable.

The german rocket launcher can reload 10 pieces of 15cm rockets in 18 seconds by a single crew member, even in move.

The Ontos can reload 6 pieces of recoilless rifles in 13s by a single crew member, even on the move.

French autoloaders in oscillating turrets can replenish their ready racks on move, while it was not possibe.

Aircrafts can fully reload their belts, fuel, bombs and rockets in 30s as well as get it completly repaired.

A crew member who just got himslef turn into a fine red mist by a 120mm shell can be magically revived in 20s into an uninjured state.

A crew member getting a headshot from a .50 cal still allows him to do his task, despite being barely alive (or dead if the game was realistic).

Do i need to continue?

Oh, then 3s reload for Leo 2 when?

1 Like
243

my point is, the vehicles should have the correct reload.
NOT changing them because people find it too hard.

want something with short reload? - advice: dont take something with a long reload.

244

Reload speed is such an incredibly variable number, even within a given tank, that it’s impossible to stick to a single figure.

Of course, every tank has a minimum required rate of fire for a loader to qualify, but individual loaders will each manage at different speeds. Add in techniques like lap loading, and fatigue, combat shock, and all sorts of other factors that influence loaders in battle, and that single number’s going to change a hell of a lot minute to minute.

You have tanks with different ammo rack locations, each of which would require a different amount of time to get a round from. Some even require the turret to be in a specific direction to fetch rounds from specific racks. That means memorizing 4+ possible reloads for every tank in the game.

Then you have tanks that, like in the comment above, cannot even be reloaded in specific conditions. Are you going to require tanks like the M56 and M50 stop and unload a crewmember just to reload?

Reload speed should be based on IRL speed as closely as possible, but ultimately it’s so variable that it can and should be used as a balancing factor. It is far preferable to do that instead of trying to buff/nerf tanks in other, less variable ways, like armor profile, speed, or other even less historical methods.

1 Like
245

If tank has 8.7 second reload, it should have 8.7 reload.

Imagine choosing a medium tank over a tank destroyer because it has a faster reload at the expense of damage.

Then you get in your medium tank and turns out that your reload is roughly the same as the tank destroyer you chose not to take - all because “balancing”

Well i just shot myself in the foot, may as well have taken the tank destroyer.

High damage, good armour but long reload?
or

Low damage, good armour and long reload still?

I think i will go for the first one. (if the second ones reload hadnt been “balanced” )- i would have chosen that.

You give one vehicle a buff, then it negates the advantages of other vehicles.

gimme a kv2 with 6 second reload, fast turret rotation and the armour.
It needs “balancing” so lets give it an artificial buff at the expense of other vehicles. . . . . .

If your using a “non-meta” vehicle (or a vehicle that is NOT the best at its br) then be aware of that, dont expect it to do what it does not do.

If i 1v1 an enemy abrahms in a bt-5 (that i chose myself) it would be crazy to expect success, especially ridiculous for the game to change my bt-5 stats to give it a better chance.

Where would it end?
Sherman not as tough as tiger - give sherman more armour.
Tiger says his armour is not as good in comparison to sherman like it used to be - result - increase tiger BR or give tiger more pen on round or increase armour.

It just doesnt end. Dont like the long reload? - dont take out something with long reload.

I dont understand the concept of having a game with so much variety etc but people wanting to minimalise this variety and just have duplicate performing vehicles but they just look different.

246

What is so hard to understand?

@Aegis270 and i explained it well. By your “logic”, a Leo 2 should have ~3s reload, which is HALF of what we have in game with aced reload.
And thiss can be more or less further halfed by lap loading!
Do you want a Leo 2 to fire like a bloody HSTV-L?

If it is autoloaded, then yes.

Is it human loaded? Not at all.

Let’s say a tank has a required reload of 8 seconds for a loader to qualify.
You can’t know if a loader is a newly trained weak-ish guy, or Arnold Schwazenegger os steroids.
You can’t know also, wether the loader is lap loading or not.

Loaders also get tired, so that has to be modelled by your “logic”.
And again, a bunch of autoloaders would be also unplayable because it took them to be stationary, and the crew outside the tank to reload the ready rack.

Do you think an Object 685 can replenish it’s autoloader with ammo behind the engine while going at 50 km/h?

This is just nonsense.

Nobody wants artificial buffs, especially for armor.

247

These comparison make zero sense. No-ones asking for the tanks in the OP to outreload conventional tanks. We’re simply advocating cutting their reload from cripplingly slow to simply very slow. Cutting three seconds from the T32’s reload isn’t going to make it superior to the Pattons, it’s just going to make them less awful to play.

The reloads for a lot of them were put in place to balancing their otherwise overwhelming advantages. Tanks like the T32s used to be complete monsters back in the relatively early days of WT Ground Forces, back when they were top dog BR wise and tanks relied on APHE and APCR. There was simply no way to kill them without flanking, so to balance their massive armor and/or firepower, their reloads were made very long to compensate.

Nowadays though, there’s no shortage of HEAT slingers to keep them in check, and uptiers are a constant threat. There is simply no reason to keep their reloads this long when their strengths have been degraded as much as they have been.

248

just artificial buffs for reload?

Ok

My kv2 has a long reload compared to the vehicles i am fighting.

Can we reduce the KV2 reload? someone has a faster one.

I was in a match earlier and someone reloaded faster than me, can i get a reload buff?

I also took out a really bad vehicle, then i got killed by better vehicles, - can i get an armour buff or reload buff or something?

I was in a match and there was this guy with an autoloader and thermals.

Can i get identical stats for my totally different vehicle?

I chose a sherman tank but it’s not a tiger, can i get a buff to my sherman to make it more like a tiger?

My bf109 only has 1 bomb, whereas the lancaster can carry 14 of them, can i get a buff?

Say you have 2 tanks. tank #1 has medium armour but has a massive gun with high damage and a long reload.
Tank #2 also has medium armour but only has a normal gun and a standard reload.
They are both the same BR.
I decide to choose tank #2 because i prefer to have a normal reload.

Then lets apply your suggestion: Tank #2 has a faster reload and because it’s not fair, something has to be done - so we buff the reload of tank #1.
So now - Tank #1 has medium armour, big gun/dmg and a normal reload.
Tank #2 still has medium armour, normal gun/dmg and a normal reload.

What is now the point of taking tank #2?
They were totally different vehicles with their own strengths/tradeoffs and at same BR.
Now - they are still totally different vehicles but they just perform alsmost identical now with one being arguably better.

Blurring lines between vehicle capabilities because you cant handle the stress and unfairness of someone having a reload 2 seconds faster while you have a gun2x bigger is NOT beneficial to anyone.
Think from an objective mindset.

It’s not fair for you, so lets give your vehicle a buff.
Then when you play the other vehicle, it is also not fair for you so we buff that vehicle.
Then you go back to the other vehicle and noww you dont have as much of an advantage as you did previously - so we buff it.
Then you switch back to the other vehicle, it’s not as good now - so we buff.
Then we go around and around.
Your thinking from the perspective of ONLY you in THAT particular vehicle.

1 Like
249

it has a massive gun. it is a great tank, it has the reload it has.

Then the germans complain

then we buff the germans.

then americans complain sdo we reduce the reload even more

then germans complain, so we buff germans

then americans complain.

Look, it would be absolutely fabulous to know that anytime you ever play warthunder you can rest assured that your handheld and that your guaranteed to be in the best vehicle in any given BR in any given match.

But you cant do that for everyone.

Here’s 5 coins, make sure all 10 of us get one.

guy running around with 2 second reload on a 155mm with heat-fs because 8 is too much for them.

And there is dumb fuck me, driving around in something with 8 second reload and a normal size gun…

If there is no tradeoff, then its a game i dont wanna play.

Just have 1 copy and paste vehicle at every br.

Reminds me of the time i ordered pasta at a restaurant and was absolutely shellshocked to see pasta on the plate rather than a steak and demanded they make the pasta like steak.

Then when i came back 2 weeks later i ordered a steak and was surprised it came out like pasta. so i ordered them to make it like steak.

If you cant deal with the vehicles, dont use them.

I aint asking for spitfires to have a radial engine or to be able to dive as fast as a 109. The vehicle is capable and needs to be played accordingly.
The issue is me, not the vehicle.
Imagine a boxer using same mentality - “opponent is half inch taller than me so either make him fight while crouched or i dont fight at all”

If that matters so much, the issue is you. not the game.

1 Like
250

M4A2 (76) IS 5.7 BR.
Tiger H1 is 5.7 BR.

M4A2 has 7.6 second reload - it has less armour - it has less effective gun.

Tiger H1 has 9.6 second reload - has much more armour - much more effective gun.

So we gonna say it’s not fair for the sherman? how about we give it a 5 second reload?

Or we gonna say Tiger needs a reload buff?

This is just 1 example, this can be applied throughout the entire tech tree for any given nation.

If certain vehicles are too difficult for you, dont use them, just rely on the ones that are easy to use, dont expect vehicles to have their stats changed on account of your inability to capitalise on the vehicles strengths.

251

The Germans already get significantly favorable reloads. The long 88 of the Tiger II has the same reload as the short 90mm on the M26 Pershing. The Germans have zero reason to complain.

252

Nobody did 🤷‍♂️

253

I did not say they did complain. I’m responding to someone claiming they would complain about Americans getting a reload buff

254

Firstly, a slippery slope fallacy is not a strong basis to an argument. Especially when Gaijin buffs/nerfs reloads all the time already.

Secondly, there is no national bias in this suggestion, as vehicles from multiple different nations are being buffed by this proposal, so that’s something you brought in.

Thirdly, is the concept of balancing the game new to you? These vehicles are generally regarded as suffering quite badly these days (Vehicles like them are the entire reason why the massive BR “decompression” that shuffled MBTs and HEAT slingers up happened). Thus they should be buffed up until they are competitive at their own tiers again. It’s particularly important for heavies since if they get moved down far enough they become overly strong, so that’s a bad way to balance them.

Forthly, and hopefully for the last time, you are blowing this buff way out of proportion.

Meanwhile, the OP suggests cutting an 18 second reload down to 15 seconds. Or slightly less than double the average rate of fire at the tier. You’re still going to be outreloaded by everything you face. You’re still vulnerable to being pushed while on reload. It’s just going to be slightly more comfortable to play at closer ranges, and slightly less punishing when these fairly weak guns underperform and bounce/fail to do critical damage.

2 Likes
255

your totally missing the point.

Dont like the characteroistics of a particular vehicle?

Dont play it.

Dont expect the game or vehicle to dodge around your incapabilities.

t34 is fine, if anything extremely strong.

1 Like
256

well then everything is good.

257

You heard it here first folks, no balancing patches are ever needed in the future, since everything is perfectly fine as it is.

The T32s aren’t bad, it’s just a skill issue that you can’t make a worse version of a 6.7 gun work at 7.3/7.7.

It’s not that the Conqueror has poor accuracy, pathetic post pen damage and a long reload that makes those two factors much worse, it’s just a skill issue that you aren’t hitting ammo with every shot.

Who cares that many of these vehicles have such poor pen that they need to be played at close range to hit weakspots, while also having cripplingly slow reloads that mean they’re super vulnerable to being pushed while at close range? Just never get pushed, lmao.

After all, the game is in an identical state now as compared to when these heavy tanks were first introduced as the top tiers of their respective lines. Certainly there hasn’t been a massive influx of HEATFS and APDS vehicles that competely negate these vehicle’s advantages at their tiers in the almost decade since their original introduction. So clearly, there is absolutely no need to revist these vehicles and address their very obvious deficiencies with a very slight reload buff.

3 Likes
258

+1

Cant recall how many times i died because of the reload in IS2 , also as new player how i’m i suppose to have Ace crews? i won’t even spend silver on them too because silver farming in this game is pretty bad , well i guess overtime i will get millions but for now i only play 2 nations USSR and BRITAIN and is getting hairy to maintain them lmao and yes i have premium account.

259

I don’t expect them to unjustifiably change anything. I expect them to accurately model the performance of each vehicle, which they don’t. Gaijin ground devs have done a terrible job adding and balancing munitions. Even worse, they refuse to take any input from the player base. They dumped out the calculator patch and just left it in a bad state.

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260

Just don’t play tanks without at least expert crew.

261

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Hnnnnnnnnnggggghhhhhh stat though

1 Like