I know. It wasn’t criticism of you. It was criticism of Mr Smurf here, who went through all the trouble of violating the game’s TOS to hide his stats from people on here. Really makes you think how “spectacular” such stats have to be.
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Therefore your opinion can be easily dismissed.
It does not.
Because in a competitive environment, by its very nature, vehicle performance is always going to be relative. That means, relative to its opposition.
If you don’t have direct experience playing something (I haven’t touched the Ho-Ris yet), the next best thing is a lot of experience playing against it. It is possible to be very competitive (WR wise and K/D wise) in a bracket where you often fight Ho-Ris, even with a vehicle that’s two BR steps lower than it, this makes it far less credible when someone claims the Ho-Ri is busted against 6.7s, let alone against opponents it faces when it’s uptiered.
Lmao
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That is T32E1 and IS-4M respectively shooting Ho-Ri.
T32E1’s gun was a little surprising in lacking penetration, its BR is driven mostly by its extremely tough armor. T29’s or T34’s is far more dangerous and just butters through the casemate.
Worse reload speed, and as you argued earlier, worse penetration at range. The only thing better about it is the higher explosive filler, which is rarely needed above 100g.
You argued earlier that it has worse ballistics, so I don’t understand how it is suddenly such an upgrade. If you’re quoting case two, then that interpretation would be hypocritical compared to your earlier statements.
Yeah, if you first shoot the gun face plate and then aim at the Ho-Ri’s weak spot.
I am talking about the fact that the Ho-Ri has superior armor, using the Ferdinand vs. Ho-Ri hull armor comparison. My argument has always been that the Ho-Ri has superior frontal armor. The Ho-Ri’s center mass is not a weak spot like it is on the Ferdinand: 200 mm flat versus roughly 275 mm effective sloped armor.
I’d like to point out that your performing the bad faith argument tactic of whataboutery incorrectly if your going to accuse the opponent of doing what your doing at least be consistent. Earlier you argued the Tiger II’s ~325 mm effective UFP justified it being at 8.0, yet now you’re using that same argument to dismiss the Ho-Ri’s ~275 mm UFP.
The “poor” Chi-Ri has a 4.5-second autoloader, which is faster than many MBTs, while fighting 5.7 vehicles. I could also go and pick out an “impressive” battle, though I’d consider that more above average than exceptional.
That still doesn’t address or excuse the contradictory statements.
You know how inaccurate Gaijin’s damage model can be, right?
This is the wooden mock-up of the Ho-Ri.
Speaking of credentials, you don’t even seem to know the development history of the vehicle you’re discussing.
Yet it wasn’t addressed, and my argument still stands. I remain consistent in stating that the Ho-Ri offers superior frontal armor. If you disagree, then please demonstrate why with concrete numbers rather than shifting goalposts. I’m always open to learning, so please prove me wrong.
When did I argue that the Ho-Ri was busted against 6.7 vehicles? I never made that claim. In fact, I said it was “not great” unless somebody could prove otherwise, so I don’t see how that addresses my argument.
How does in-game experience matter to a forum discussion? The argument itself is what matters.
Just because its pennable doesn’t mean the armor isn’t fantastic. Proper angling will do away with all of those rounds, while you face quite a few lower pen guns that cannot do much of anything to you besides take out your transmission.
Perfectly adequate reverse for the BR.
Fair point.
Driver port works for IS-4 and cupola on the T32 if you scrape the gunner sight/MG. While they may have the armor/turret advantage over you, you are still considerably faster, have a much better reload, and no muzzle break while they do have one, making barrel snipes much more trivial for them. Same angling applies as they possess 6.7 guns. While you are largely hopeless against a Maus, many other tanks are in the same boat.
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And ive watched a majority of my Zunis near miss and still blow up Tiger IIs and US Heavies.
Overall while MB326K is better, it has a much higher “skill floor” (it took me 5 minutes in test drive to figure out the rocket trajectory) leading to it being less spammed and therefore isn’t as complained about.
Both should just go to 7.7, removing the CCIP would be ahistorical (meaning Gaijin won’t do it) as its already in the game. 7.3 matchmaker being almost always 6.7 doesn’t help that BR.
The entirety of mid tier also just needs a massive amount of decompression, its pure hell.
The threshold for overpressure is ~170g TNTe. Ho-Ri clears this, so any crew in the compartment you penetrate dies. The shell is also much heavier, which helps with angled penetration.
Unless a specific tank requires the higher penetration of the long 88 to be defeated, the Ho-Ri’s 10cm cannon is better because of this.
Here’s a demonstration against a T95 recently.
Shooting center mass against a Ferdinand is a stupid idea. You kill the driver, but he can still reload and shoot back. Crew replacements are much faster than a transmission repair.
You aim center mass against Tiger 2, you will nonpen. You aim center mass against Ho-Ri, you will nonpen. In both cases you will penetrate if using 90mm or larger HEAT-FS.
I dismiss it because I would never aim there unless I had HEAT-FS for both.
It being weaker is irrelevant to me, because I either A) have a shell that can butter through both (HEAT-FS), or B) have a conventional shell that will not reliably penetrate either, so I will simply not aim there, and target a place where I can penetrate reliably.
Even in the Ho-Ri I do not take chances against the Ferdinand’s 200mm front hull because at just 500m I no longer have enough penetration to guarantee anything better than a coin flip even if he’s facing perfectly straight towards me.
The Ferdinand’s gun shield increases protection to a much higher degree if you hit there. The entire front of the casemate is 230mm head-on. Consider that like the Ho-Ri it is a very large tank and you will not be looking down on it.
It’s also as tall as a house and lightly armored. The gun is very similar to the american 76mm, found on the M4A1 76 at 5.0, without the stabilizer, and it is instead 5.7.
Do you think a 120mm plate steeply sloped back would be easy to penetrate with WW2 cannons?
Wrong.
Know more than you pal. That’s not even the final design of the Ho-Ri, it was rejected in favor of a simpler one. For the finalized tank, construction was started for 5 prototypes, all armor plating was made, and they were halfway built by war’s end.
You’d know this if you knew the development history of the Ho-Ri.
Already have. The Ho-Ri’s casemate provides ~200mm of armor to the gunner and ~120mm to the transmission.
Ferdinand provides ~230mm protection to the gunner, ~205mm to the driver, and ~180mm on the hull shoulders and lower plate when head-on.
Which also means you can no longer shoot at them, and a single hit to the transmission (protected by 120mm of flat armor) will leave you with a long repair time while unable to shoot the enemy at all.
-9kph isn’t so bad when you have a turret or a fast hull traverse when stationary. It’s quite bad when you don’t have either.
This tiny rectangle.
A cupola which does nothing half the time?
The results of angling are the following:
And leave you unable to shoot back.
Angle less and-
And now your casemate can be penetrated.
Only saw that against paper tanks or in very rare ocurrences. I had dozens of very near misses only take tracks off. The most notable non-kills:
This E-100 ate 4 Zunis to the side.
This Skink ate one right to the front.
I have never had a near miss with a Zuni destory a heavily armoured tank. They have damaged them, Blown off tracks or the occasional barrel etc. exterior module damage. But never destroyed one without a direct hit.
Heck Ive even direct hit plenty of Panthers, tigers etc and not destroyed them.
The only things Ive ever killed with near miss splash damage has been very lightly armoured or open topped vehicles.
As a thought experiment, I took out the Ferdi for a few games after getting used to the Ho-Ri again, to get a feel for the difference, and honestly? Tier for tier, they’re very similar.
The Ferdi is definitely slower, but the electric transmission was a very nice utility on a large, casemate TD, as was the much wider gun arc. It was far easier to react to enemies appearing from unexpected angles, and when I got into trouble I could immediately reverse out into a safer fallback location.
I also appreciated the faster reload, which makes handling multiple enemies at a time a bit more comfortable. It’s a slight but appreciated advantage.
Survivability felt largely the same, at least tier for tier. Much like the Ho-Ri, while it has weakspots, there is a sizable proportion of players who just have no idea where to shoot it, especially if you push them and cause them to panic. And while shots into the hull corners would always disable me, they wouldn’t always reach into the crew compartment due to the firewall, meaning that I could usually return fire. And, of course, in the ideal situation of sitting hulldown at range, I was even better protected than the Ho-Ri. Plus, given the greater gun arc, you can actually angle the Ferdi’s casemate pretty far while shooting, providing even more protection across it’s face. You can even exploit this at closer ranges, if you find a corner with some hull height rubble to use.
The big thing that held it back was the mobility, which made aggressive manoeuvrers far less credible, and hurt when it came to getting to power positions and reacting to the flow of the map. I definitely felt far more limited in what I could do, and far more map and tier dependant.
But overall, the two felt similar enough that insisting the Ho-Ri move up out of some comparison to the Ferdi feels unwarranted.
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You know the 8.8 can also do this?
At least bother to get it right my guy.
Just use APDS if you have such issue or
APCBC.
Are you referring to yourself? the Ho-Ri doesn’t have Heat-FS so i really don;t know what’s the subject at case here, What’s it?
in this scenario what do you do?
Too bad i do.
Close enough.
Depends on the context, But yeah i think the bismark could do that.
Actually the Rat1000 was build with prototype in the deep underground caves in argartha of course the deepstate doesn’t want you to know that but trust me, i have bothered to provide proof about the Ho-Ri your just saying “Wrong”
Previously you actually admitted it but you don’t want to clarify the fact you actually said this which it’s only logical interpretation is that the ferdinand is 30mm weaker
I honestly think the mobility is the biggest part of what makes the Ho-Ri strong, and not the armour.
It has medium tank mobility which makes it so much more flexible and adaptable in its positioning and repositioning, while also allowing you to quickly get its gun around onto targets. It also allows you to be much more aggressive than something like a ferdi or a Jagtiger.
It also widens the variations of maps that it can be effective on.
Now it’s 2026; KH38 is not the most dangerous thing, and it costs a lot
The long 88 cannot overpressure.
I have no idea what kinda angle you’re shooting it at, but straight down the center it’s zero crew killed.
T34 is an exception because of its very strong solid shot, and it can go all the way through to the rear crew compartment.
This is against Ho-Ri at close range, with other APHE shells having very similar results since they will detonate long before reaching the rear crew compartment.
(a 7.7 heavy tank from 1955 known for its very powerful gun and large APDS shell)
Meanwhile even T34 with its very strong gun is unable to penetrate it.
Any of the many tanks around this BR with HEAT-FS, like M46/47/48, Type 61, Ru 251, etc etc etc.
In the Ho-Ri? I die because the Maus is functionally impenetrable. Aside from this one trap shot. Either that or I shoot his barrel.
His PoV is much more favorable even with the full-size 128mm shells and not the APHEDS.
Great, unless you are within 500m and he is not angled at all, you may take his drivers and nothing else. Then if he’s smart, you lose your gunner. If you angle to protect your gunner, you lose your transmission instead.
The Ho-Ri suggestion posted in this forum, and linked in this thread, contains all the information you’d need to know.
You are just misreading it. It’s 30mm better, and at a lower BR. This is obvious if you look at any of my other replies where I show the view in Protection Analysis or mention their respective armor values, like one of the very replies you yourself quoted there:
It is, because you are getting a huge tank with good enough armor into a good position, whether that is right in front of someone (causing them to panic) or a flanking position. Usually people expect less armored vehicles to be flanking, so a giant TD is unexpected.
By comparison Ho-Ri Prototype has a much worse engine, making it probably not much faster than the Ferdinand at the same BR, and with much worse armor. The gun is mostly unchanged but the effectiveness of the vehicle as a whole is much lower.
