7.3 japan problem

Game Discussion Realistic Battle
205

That’s not how armor works, and you’re not the one to dictate how it functions. Nobody cares that you think somebody deserves nonpen because he didn’t use your weak spot, while having 260mm of pen and can go right through your casemate.

So let me get it right, 9mm of armor to a weakspot suddenly changes the entire playstyle?

I am going to assume you have learned that in general, weak points of a vehicle tend to be around the breech, driver port, MG ball, and lower plate. You should know that, because that applies to almost all vehicles.

Why would I post on my main so your kind can find foundations for ad hominem attacks while not addressing my arguments? As you have done.

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Maybe because it’s a center mass kill shot if it pens? Which the Ho-Ri counters by being more angled and more armored?
204<276???

Do you understand WW2 German tank construction? It happens with welded plates due to this, you can hit where there’s less material.
Don’t you know the edge effect in armor ballistics?

You’re just shooting the roof, bro.

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206

Upper works is 225 but not the lower hull - it’s 120 which is <<< than the 200 the Ferdinand has.

It might have better forward speed (are u racing to a cap?) but it’s reverse is <<< Ferdinand so not nearly as useful as shoot-and-scoot.

Reload is also slower, and though the pen is similar, the Ho-Ri actually has LESS pen.

How are you justifying it’s move to 7.7 ? (where it will face even more HEAT rounds that slice through the “better” armor)

207

Japan actually gets something moderately good for once in their poor existence: “REEE NERF IT!”

also, 7.3 Zunis =OP. Meanwhile the A1-H at 6.3 with its Zunis:

I guess A1-H doesnt have CCIP but Zunis trajectory is flat enough and easy enough to aim that it wouldnt be much of a nerf if it didnt have it.

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208

If I had a quarter for every time Japan got nerfed for having a moment of being good, I’d have several quarters. Which isn’t a lot, but, weirdly, it happened a ton of times.

209

Because those are your “qualifications” talking about the topic.

You are not discussing the weather.

I have thousands and thousands of matches in the 6.7 - 7.7 bracket. Is the Ho Ri a dangerous opponent? Hell yeah. Is it undertiered? I’ll wait until I play it to express final judgement, right now my position is “maybe, maybe not, but even if it is, it’s not criminally undertiered or anything”.

Since the comparison du jour seems to be the Tiger II, I have to point out as I always do that the easy ammo rack of the Tiger II is the price it pays for its strengths. If you’re peeking out of cover you have to pixel hunt the Ho Ri before it can nuke your turret, but what’s new about that? You gotta do the same vs a T29, or an IS-3, or an M103, or… Etc etc.

It can be done. I can assert this confidently because anyone can see my Tiger II stats, and draw their conclusions - I have fought side by side with and against plenty of Ho-Ris during all those matches since it’s a fairly popular TD.

How can you back what you say if we can’t see your profile?

Incorrect use of the expression btw. Extreme analogy but if you’re debating physics with someone, asking if they have a degree is not ad hominem. Being able to follow up your words with deeds is a good thing.

210

Dont worry, they’ll compensate by raising the A6M5 Ko to 6.0 next BR change.

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211

imo its flight performance is way too bad to move it up past 7.7, it is an abysmal aircraft, its only good feature is the CCIP

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212

a br change wouldnt do anything to the l39, the problem is the payload, mainly the fact it gets ccrp and rockets.

so simple solution, remove the zuni, change the large pods of hydra’s to the small pods of hydra’s, it would still be dominate but it wont have the staying power it currently has, and getting back to alt isnt that practical with the jet while laden with ordnance.

213

ok move Tiger 2 to 8.0 because I can’t pen it and I REFUSE to look at its armor profile
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In case you didn’t notice, Ferdinand is 6.7 and Ho-Ri is 7.3.

“tend to be” is not a universal rule. There are many exceptions that should be remembered, and many vehicles are counterintuitive.

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The engine is in the way, you’re not killing anything. Even IF you could penetrate it, the engine compartment is separated by firewalls from the crew on both sides.

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The only exception are large howitzers, to which the Ho-Ri is EXCEPTIONALLY VULNERABLE if they hit the armor in front of the exhausts for some reason.
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Which is an extremely small, extremely unlikely place to hit in a real battle.

Must I remind you, Mr Level 5, that it was YOU who looked up my stats first, and were the first to use “ad hominem”?

So pipe down, or post in your main so we can see what you play. I’m sure there will be no conflict of interest.

No you see that’s in the USA tree so it’s fine. Only major nations are allowed to have good things.

I am using the Tiger 2 as a representation that the strongest parts of a tank’s armor are rarely relevant, because anyone with eyes and hands will target the weaker sections, f.e. the turret face.
So it doesn’t really matter how strong the Ho-Ri’s angled hull is, or if the center of the casemate is thicker, if you can just target the weaker sections instead.

Currenly the small rockets are FFARs, not Hydras. They’re also very inaccurate. Even if you get close, all 4 pods may only get you a few kills.

If instead it lost CCIP, it would have to go much lower in BR. We have A-1H as a good example, it’s a better platform with more Zunis at 6.3.

Alternatively I would suggest reducing CCIP range to 1.5-2km max or so. It would force it to enter effective SPAA range to fire its few rockets accurately and make it easier to intercept by enemy fighters, while still being worth playing.

214

I have the ho ri production and the Ferdinand does have better protection

215

actually theyre hydra’s.

which are just updated ffars…

216

Huh, I coulda sworn I had seen FFAR on the killfeed when I was using them. Fair enough.

217

Under that logic i have no “Qualifications” Yet my argument still stands.

Favorite vehicle tiger II sla
Listen i love this little critter, But why do we have to judge a argument not by it’s content worth but the experience of the person background stating that, I am not going to argue that background doesn’t play a role it does and i have openly stated i am biased.

But i don’t let my personal interest of any vehicle change my opinion that L-39 is overpowered, From every TT i have played i can say yes the Ho-Ri is certainly not a great vehicle, i don’t need to play it to know that almost all heavies can pen it.

And let me tell you i have seen people with 40, 50 thousands battle and i think we all know Experience in this game doesn’t matter.

Says Ho-Ri is worse then the ferdihand
Ignores the strengthened superior upper plate which the Ho-Ri has to the Ferdihand 205vs273
Argues that because the turret face partially is 9mm weaker then the ferdihand that plays completely differently then it, Ignores that part from those spots the turret is 225
Takes argument that if he believes they deserve to pen doesn’t matter
Proceeds to take random heavy front plate and say because it has 325mm front plate it should 8.0

Yeah maybe that’s due to superior armor, Top speed, and double the horsepower.

Yes i looked up your stats and stated that your biased since you have things to gain of the L-39 doesn’t get nerfed which it will be, Which there a clear pattern of people going and protecting OP vehicle
for the reason your fellow L-39 enjoyer has stated here

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Per my statement per the picture above the Ho-Ri doesn’t have the same weakspot as the ferdihand has which can be seen above as stated, So center shots in the Ho-Ri are not actually a weak point.

Part time Heat shell spaced armor part time HE catcher

Whentheyhityouinyourwelds

My interest is to have a balanced game, perfectly balanced as all things should be.

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218

Even a near miss overpressures heavy tanks. I dont know why PercussionCap is lying.

219

The M47 is also just a more versatile 7.3 than the Ho-Ri.
But thinking about what works on all maps vs what works on less than 50% of maps isn’t the most obvious thing to think about.

220

While im quite terrible with the L-39 I can say both the L-39 and Ho-Ri should ABSOLUTELY
be 7.7, they are both ridiculous in their own rights and are ruining the 6.7 bracket.
Yes, the L-39 is worse than the MBK, but unlike the MBK, it possesses CCIP which makes the skill floor essentially zero. Somebody who has never touched a plane can still wreck entire teams with it, though whats worse is how much its spammed.

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221

My bad for playing 6.7 bro🥀 i’d take not great back for the Ho-Ri then

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222

It does. At least if person learns something from that experience.

223

It does literally everything well with its only negative being that it is a casemate. Fantastic armor, mobility, gun, what else would you need? Its broken as hell.

224

The issue is all 7.7s are better than the Ho-Ri, as are most 7.3.s.
Ho Ri is effectively a faster slightly less armored Jagdtiger, and its BR reflects that.
It’s 7.3 instead of 6.7.

1 Like