7.3 japan problem

[30x170_APDS-T]

Hey, let’s have a little game.
Anyone who think that the Ho-Ri Production is OP in term of armor, give me 10 tanks that cannot pen the Ho-Ri production turret that sits between 6.3 and 8.3 cannot pen 205mm with any of it’s shell types ?
AAA not counted of course.
Spoiler alert:
There are exactly 32 6.3 tanks, and without counting the 3 AAA (M163, M53/59 and ZSL92), only of 4 them cannot pen the ho-ri turret (even tho all can pen the LFP.). It is just the T-44 FM. As well as the: T20, T-34 STP and M4A3E2 76 (W), even tho those 3 have access to a stabilizater making them still competitive.
So there is acutally 1 of all the 32 tanks of 6.3 BR (<3%) that will have to avoid facing the Ho-Ri Production and go somewhere else on the map.

Other spoiler : it’s 7 (2 AMX-13 (FR and ISR), T-44, T-44FM and T-34 STP ( Russia) and T-20 and M4A3E2 76 (W) (both US).

[Cloudzy26160]

With out seeing the device in operation its hard to tell for sure, but looking at the photos above, it seems like once the loading tray drops down, then the left half could be pulled back into place and a new round placed while the 1st is being rammed, as soon as the ram retreats the bottom half would be pulled clear of the breech and locked straight on to the new round. As soon as the round is locked into the tray the loader could possibly “lap” another round ready to load.
Of course there are factors in a tank that would affect the loader that are not present on a stationary system, such as the loader being bounced around as the tank moves, but that isn’t modeled in any part of WT.
And ultimately reload speed is subject to Gaijins balancing decisions, so it’s a rather pointless argument either way.

[Tsumibito42-psn]

Either way this would still allow for a round to be put on the assisted loader while waiting for the round to be shot, as in both ways you would have to remove the assisted loader from out behind the breach before firing giving the loader time to load a new round into it before the round that was loaded fires.

My point to the person I was responding too was that saying the assisted loader would be way longer because of the guy having to feed a round onto the assisted loader doesn’t make too much sense since that would be done before the loading of the next round commences during the “down time” when the gun is firing, or that even if he is it wouldn’t take him over 2 or 3 more seconds to do so and a reload time exceeding 10 seconds for the tank would be kind of unrealistic.

[Cloudzy26160]

@Tsumibito42-psn

saying the assisted loader would be way longer because of the guy having to feed a round onto the assisted loader doesn’t make too much sense since that would be done before the loading of the next round commences during the “down time” when the gun is firing,

Yes, I agree, I was adding to you point, sorry if I came across as arguing with you.

[Tsumibito42-psn]

Nah its fine plus I just got reported by a Chinese player for telling him that Taiwan is a country lol so I might get deleted lol.

[Cloudzy26160]

LOL, yeah, they get touchy about that, I got flagged within seconds for just saying the Mainland and Taiwan had a political disagreement

[Tsumibito42-psn]

Yeah they do not take well to people pointing out issue with their country for as quick as they are to try and throw out stuff about other countries. Like a massive victim complex lol.

[AurenKarach]

@Aegis270

And the Ho-Ri’s toe plate is a sizable weakspot that is for some reason rarely targeted.

You mean LFP?

That’s where I usually shoot. It leads to a long time to kill because of the 6 crew, so it’s only suitable for tactical situations where you know you are set up and can afford to slowly bleed the Ho Ri. Much less suitable if you need to quickly dispatch it, or if you happen upon each other frontally.

The Ho Ri is not as strong as some of the whiners in this thread make it sound, but I play that BR bracket a lot and I almost never see a Ho Ri do poorly in a match, and that makes me think. Not something that can be purely ascribed to the players either because it seems an outlier even compared to other Japanese vehicles in the bracket. But I’m speaking anecdotally here and that’s of limited value, I need to go check Statshark when I’m back at my pc.

[Aegis270]

@AurenKarach

You mean LFP?

I call it a toe plate since it’s not technically the LFP (There is an even lower LFP, while the toe plate is basically flat). Dunno if that’s the technical term, but it’s something I picked up… somewhere.

@AurenKarach

That’s where I usually shoot. It leads to a long time to kill because of the 6 crew, so it’s only suitable for tactical situations where you know you are set up and can afford to slowly bleed the Ho Ri. Much less suitable if you need to quickly dispatch it, or if you happen upon each other frontally.

If you surprise each other at close quarters, it’s not a good pick for that reason. But it is a 100% reliable way to disable one that’s on reload if you aren’t confident in being able to accurately hit the casemate while it’s moving.

The best way to deal with a Ho-Ri in this situation is to shoot the toe plate to disable it, then just drive out of it’s gun arc. So long as it’s not in a completely linear sightline, odds are it’s quite limited gun arc means there’s a place you can sit where you can shoot it, and it can’t shoot you.

At this point, you’re free to do whatever you like. You can just keep shooting the toeplate to slowly attrition it down, or take out the barrel and push it, or aim for the weak spots on the casemate now that it’s unable to wiggle and throw off your aim.

@AurenKarach

The Ho Ri is not as strong as some of the whiners in this thread make it sound, but I play that BR bracket a lot and I almost never see a Ho Ri do poorly in a match, and that makes me think.

It’s certainly a strong tank. It has a comfortable mix of firepower, armour and mobility that makes it surprisingly flexible for a casemate TD. And, as proven by this thread, a lot of people still don’t know where to shoot it. I took it out for a few games today just to check in on things, and there are still people who’ll just drive out in front of it and shoot the auto-richocet UFP.

Once people learn where to shoot it (And to not sit in a sniper duel with one in a Tiger II unless they’re really confident in their aim), it will cease to be an issue. Because at the end of the day, it is still a casemate with mediocre reactionary mobility. All it takes to beat one is to get into CQB and wait for an opening.

[PercussionCap]

@BRCompression

just as like 200mm is better then 225mm just like that upper angled plate you didn’t mention

Why would you ever shoot the thickest armor on this tank? At least Ferdinand might force you to shoot the casemate by hiding his hull, in Ho-Ri you cannot hide the 200mm flat casemate front or mantlet.

@BRCompression

why would i waste my time colluding in a platform full of irrational actors?

Dunno, why would you? You’ve never even seen a T58, Ho-Ri, or L-39 ART.

@BRCompression

Any chance of not attempting a pure ad hominem attack?

@BRCompression

Hey by any chance is this your account? or it a impersonator he makes you seem very biased.

As I said: we can play the stat checking game both ways.

@BRCompression

214<234, Bigger number better understand?

Again, why are you shooting the thickest part of the casemate instead of anywhere else?

@BRCompression

Again Ho-Ri as your self has stated ricochet so it has better armor rather then eating the shell.

Ricichet where?

@PercussionCap

Is this why you’re still down at rank 3?

@BRCompression

but it’s much stronger it’s self 100>80 and much more angled and smaller of course

Wow, 150mm of effective armor at 7.3!

@Pvt__Wade

always a japanese main

We’re sorry you guys can’t aim or look around you

@AurenKarach

but I play that BR bracket a lot and I almost never see a Ho Ri do poorly in a match

It’s a combination of several things. Number one is the mobility, you can get a LOT of tank to any place on the map very quickly and being so large, people very often just panic shoot you somewhere they’re never gonna penetrate. You’re then free to shoot them with the excellent cannon it has. People just do not expect something so large and armored to suddenly show up next to them.

The best way to describe the Ho-Ri is that it’s a battering ram. You hold W, you force your enemy to make a rushed, panicked shot, and then you kill them in what will be a single shot 99% of the time because the shell has a high filler. Or you just kill them before they have a chance to react to you.

Once you are immobilized it’s usually a fast death though.

@Aegis270

a lot of people still don’t know where to shoot it. I took it out for a few games today just to check in on things, and there are still people who’ll just drive out in front of it and shoot the auto-richocet UFP.

This is from one of the times when I was playing the Ho-Ri Prototype. For reference, the casemate on this one is just 150mm at its thickest, and 120mm on the outer portions. The transmission cover is flat 75mm.
You can see the impact marks there.

@Aegis270

(And to not sit in a sniper duel with one in a Tiger II unless they’re really confident in their aim)

This is more winnable than it seems. I’d take this matchup on either side.

Tiger II shell can pen the casemate out to 1000m

Ho-Ri can pen Tiger II turret front out to ~800m

[English_Ham]

Ho-ri certainly does not need a br increase.

as for the jet - i am researching it but it just sounds like you dont like Zuni’s - which are very good and I love em. The Jet is slow as hell and can be eradicated by a number of pro-active spaa models.

Stop complaining lol. Have you ever played Japan?

Apds goes right through the Ho-Ri mantlet.

Sounds like people are complaining from a very narrow experience/mindset.

[BRCompression]

@Aegis270

You’re comparing the strongest armor

Yes the armor has technically a weak spot, But for most of the super stracture the Ho-Ri offers superior armor.

@Aegis270

rather than the weakpoints that everyone should be aiming for.

You know that not all people

1. Know weakspots of obscure Japan’s TD

2. Don’t hit all shots

@Aegis270

claim the Ferdinand has incredible hull armor and point to the 200mm sections, while ignoring the hull corners.

My claim is the logical conclusion that the Ho-Ri offers superior armor not even getting into the fact it has superior mobility.

The Ho-Ri offers two weakspots the one for the driver which mobility kill which it’s self is a waste of time since the Ho-Ri is going to shoot your back or the case-mate weakspot which most cases is a two shot kill for shells such as the german 8.8

@Aegis270

Ho-Ri’s toe plate is a sizable weakspot that is for some reason rarely targeted. Given the Ho-Ri’s terrible gun arc, all you have to do is shoot the toe plate and drive a couple meters to either side, and the Ho-Ri is effectively doomed

@Aegis270

Of course, the Ferdi’s hull corners means it’s overall less well armored as an overall package, since it needs to protect far more of it’s hull to be protected. But that (And the mobility) are why it’s so much lower in BR.

And, strictly speaking, if we’re comparing both tanks in their ideal engagement scenario (At range, with their hull covered), the Ferdinand is better armoured. As an example, at 500m, the long 88 can pen the weaker areas of the Ho-Ri’s casemate, while the Ferdinand is 100% immune.

(I think i don’t need to state that both TD shouldn’t be brawling but yes the Ho-Ri super structure weak spot is a issue while brawling and not at ranges like it should be played)

[ULQ_LOVER]

I’m so happy that people are defending L-39ZA.

Being able to spawn it with zunis after gathering such small amount of SP allows me to attack ground units before anyone from enemy team even spawns the air in first place.

Having CCIP allows me to destroy SPAAs, especially open-tops with ease from larger distances and deal with radar ones.

If someone wants to use the air against You, You can always fly to the airport and be immune to them while also gaining altitude, if there is anyone smart in air, You can always just leave the battle without death penalty on airport.

Gonna continue to abuse it, please continue to protect it from being given higher B.R.!

[BRCompression]

@30x170 APDS-T

The problem is that for you, anyone who played a tank will do anything tmake it better.
But what I see is that you only faced it and never played it; this would make you biased (it killed me, so it’s good/cancer/pay-to-win).

To be honest while yes i haven’t played it haven’t gotten killed by it yes it has superior factors compared to Ferdinand while both frankly are pathetic vehicles that taht isn’t at play.

@30x170 APDS-T

In fact, the people who played it are way more suitable to give a feedback about the BR.
And you are comparing a 6.7 heavy TD against a 7.3 heavy TD.

I never argued or will argue that the Ho-Ri is OP because it isn’t the biggest fish to fry simply.

@30x170 APDS-T

Ferdinand armor is actually more angled than the Ho-Ri,

Yes the super structure is more angled the Ho-Ri for the majority of it has 225mm plating while the weak-spots a 204mm.

Is anybody going to consider this any time soon?

@30x170 APDS-T

Plus, the longer the range, the slower the shell get,

Which the Ho-Ri is heavier and a bigger caliber with double the HE filler

[30x170_APDS-T]

@BRCompression

Is anybody going to consider this any time soon?

When you play your M18, do you aim for the Tiger II LFP ?
Just a quick question

@BRCompression

To be honest while yes i haven’t played it haven’t gotten killed by it yes it has superior factors compared to Ferdinand while both frankly are pathetic vehicles that taht isn’t at play.

Then why are you even trying to debate something you don’t even know about ?
I feel like I’m arguing with the old one from America

[BRCompression]

@ULQ_LOVER

please continue to protect it from being given higher B.R.!

- YouTube

[PercussionCap]

@BRCompression

Yes the armor has technically a weak spot, But for most of the super stracture the Ho-Ri offers superior armor.

@BRCompression

Is anybody going to consider this any time soon?

For most of the entire profile of the Tiger II, it offers superior armor.

…But you can just aim better and bypass all that.

As for the Ferdinand, you are making a mistake by not using Protection Analysis, since the Armor view only shows line of sight thickness and not effective protection.

As I showed above…

@BRCompression

This is actually ~190mm from head-on, and only takes out driver/engine.

@BRCompression

(I think i don’t need to state that both TD shouldn’t be brawling

The Ho-Ri is at its best when brawling in tight spaces. You simply do not give your enemy enough time to react.
If you’re staying at long range, the Jagdtiger is much better. A stationary Ho-Ri is one that will quickly be destroyed.

[AurenKarach]

@Aegis270

I call it a toe plate since it’s not technically the LFP (There is an even lower LFP, while the toe plate is basically flat).

Ahh, gotcha. Like the stepped hull of many German tanks I suppose

[BRCompression]

@PercussionCap

Why would you ever shoot the thickest armor on this tank?

Miss or don’t know the weakspot

@PercussionCap

least Ferdinand might force you to shoot the casemate by hiding his hull

How cannot the Ho-Ri do the same?

@PercussionCap

Ho-Ri you cannot hide the 200mm flat casemate front or mantlet.

Bad faith discussion while ignoring 70% of the turret face is 225.

@PercussionCap

Dunno, why would you? You’ve never even seen a T58, Ho-Ri, or L-39 ART.

I play 9.3 and 6.7 extensively.

@PercussionCap

As I said: we can play the stat checking game both ways.

You know Ad-Hominem means correct?

@BRCompression

probably got banned from the game or forum, and this is your alt

This is Ad-Homimen attack btw, Not addressing my arguments and making up theories of my actions

@PercussionCap

Again, why are you shooting the thickest part of the casemate

Because we are comparing the casemate, Because y’all don’t want to address the superior hull armor

Unless your going to argue 275mm is smaller then 200.

@PercussionCap

Ricichet where?

What does Ricichet mean man?

@PercussionCap

Wow, 150mm of effective armor at 7.3

Funnily enough 150mm of effective armor while shooting at the side of the tank is quite good isn’t it? while being completely UN-angled

@PercussionCap

We’re sorry you guys can’t aim or look around you

Now everbody is suffering US main&German main disease ?

@PercussionCap

But you can just aim better and bypass all that.

Your forgetting the MG ball

Funnily enough all of these are one shoot kills which the Ho-Ri Weakest point the lower 120mm is just a mobility kill and for the 200mm super structure it’s not a one shoot kill, it’s almost like theres a reason it’s a lower BR

@PercussionCap

This is actually ~190mm from head-on, and only takes out driver/engine.

[PercussionCap]

@BRCompression

Miss or don’t know the weakspot

If you don’t know the weakspot of a very common armored TD, that’s on you and you deserve to nonpen. It’s the same against any other tank with good armor.

@BRCompression

How cannot the Ho-Ri do the same?

Because you do not want them to shoot the casemate.

@BRCompression

Bad faith discussion while ignoring 70% of the turret face is 225.

ok

70% of this is at least ~400mm or a ricochet

If you “miss or don’t know the weakspot” your chances of penetrating are much worse than against Ho-Ri

@BRCompression

I play 9.3 and 6.7 extensively.

@BRCompression

Not addressing my arguments and making up theories of my actions

Where’s your 6.7s? 9.3s? Anything in between? Obviously you’re not posting on your “main”, so there must be a reason why you went through all this effort of creating a new account, playing a handful of matches, and using it to post here.

@BRCompression

Because we are comparing the casemate, Because y’all don’t want to address the superior hull armor

…Because there is zero reason to shoot here.

@BRCompression

while being completely UN-angled

At that angle, the sides are a ricochet or a minimum of 230mm while the casemate is ~260mm. Most will shoot the casemate still, which is now just barely thick enough to stop other large caliber tank guns like T34’s.

@BRCompression

Now everbody is suffering US main&German main disease ?

Given that I keep seeing impact dents on functionally impenetrable areas, yes.

@BRCompression

Your forgetting the MG ball

Have fun hitting that beyond 200m reliably.

@BRCompression

Literally 1 pixel higher:

I can find extremely improbably pixel weakspots too, doesn’t make them viable. You’re just grasping at straws now.

@BRCompression