Why is a 109 even in a game with WW2 armour? I mean really WTF on a most basic tank/tank game loving level.
I enjoy that one too, although it appears yours has come with some aftermarket spaced armor :)
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Oh, my bad, lol. You said KV-220, not KV-122, haha. KV-220 looks like KV-5 from WoT.
KV-220 is definitely not as broken as it used to, but it’s still very fun as hardly anyone knows how to properly engage it.
If those APHE changes proposed some time ago get implemented though, it will instantly become garbage
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now? 6.0 was destroyed the moment HEAT-FS came out.
I just played USA at 5.7 using mostly the armour of the Cobra King and then Germany in the Porsche Tiger again using Armour. I am shocked at but a truly broken game it is.
Totally ruined and made point less by the Bakaan ,The M109 and Russian artillery ignoring WW2 armour.
What a stupid thing to do putting that rubbish in WW2 and ruining your own game 🤣
Which complete ass hat thought that was a good idea? I remeber now why I have ignored 5.7 used so long now.It used to be my main home in this game but its dead now and a joke.
2S3M and 2S1 aren’t an issue, neither is Bkan. Nor even the probably most annoying pre M109 SPH the Type 75 SPH was too problematic.
The reason for that was the fact that there were limited number of them. 2S3M and 2S1 aren’t very good, Bkan is very situational and Type 75 comes from a nation not many people play.
It all changed with addition of M109s tho. They are literally everywhere in stupid quantities and they get one of the most annoying features a tank can get which is being thin enough to not fuse majority of APHE shells coming at them.
Due to the fact that they were copypasted into nearly every nation in the game rather than an occasional threat they are now a constant bane of anyone who plays a heavy tank without a 12,7 hmg.
Sure they aren’t overpowered, but they are extremely annoying. M109 should have never been added to all the nations it ended up in. Only nation that should have received it was USA. Period. Not only doesn’t every nation need an SPH, even if they did all of them have some domestic counterpart that could have been added instead.
Kings of battle update with M109s and recent update with M44s were both peak of Gaijin’s laziness
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You are missing the point really.They are a problem.They are such a problem that they make venturing out in the Cobra King utterly pointless.They make it totally obsolete which is what they would have been if they faced those vehicles in WW2. Its like taking a BT5 into 7BR as far as armour goes.
A couple of years ago we all knew what to expect when playing such a vehicle as the Cobra King or maybe Panther. Good protection was first.From the front very good protection and a chance of bouncing some shots.Maybe damage but a chance to see the enemy before you died and maybe take action.Maybe an instant death in rare case or if the enemy flanked you.
That was fine,frustrating maybe but that was how it was.
Now ? Boom dead ,thanks good bye.wasted your time going out in an armored heavy.
Artillery no problem? Not good ? What do I say to that statement without extreme profanity? 🤣
They are reason for the OP . Dont be fooled by the fact something has thin armour, it can still ruin a whole BR or tier.
You forget that those who use armour pay a severe weight penalty of speed but why do that when your Cobra King or Panther now has the protection of an M18 as far as the spam of artillery is concerned.
Sorry Gaijin ruined their own game. It might be slightly easier to take when the vehicle sin question is at least factual and not a sci fy time traveler .GRB is not an april fools event.
I agree with the numbers but that is out of our control and varies.
I have enjoyed War Thunder lately at 6.7 and looked past the WW2/Cold war mix
but at 5.7 -6BR it makes the game pointless and zero fun.I remembered why I gave it up.
Spot on there ,it is laziness and its a new breed of dumb dev with no knowledge of armour or understanding of much of the fanbase.
I have around 1500 battles in Cobra King and i think it’s a pretty bad example, SPHs are one of my favourite things to go up against in this tank. Sure they can one shot you without any issue, but you have vertical stabiliser and they don’t. And as soon as you cripple them with 1st shot, you can follow up with 12,7 and eliminate them.
Unless he notices you first, by which point it’s kinda your fault, you always have an upper hand in direct engagement which is fine.
And with how scarce the SPHs used to be before M109s were added i was actually supporting their presence in the game. It was a nice interesting addition that added some flavour to the overall game experience.
Well, not really, not even a single SPH in this game (except for VIDAR maybe) is actually overpowered. They are just annoying. I surely have nothing against occasionally facing a Type 75 or Bkan, but having to deal with at least 3-4 M109s every single game regardless of which nation i play, especially if i don’t have an HMG is infuriating.
You hit him in the turret, kill multiple of his crew members, but so what? He will just run away and he has like 4 more guys sitting in that turret anyway. And unless you knew you will be facing him and had time to change ammo to HE it’s hard to reliably kill them in one shot.
No I dont buy that.You cant see everybody and heavy armour is there for a reason ,its protection and its relative to an era.The idea of warfare is a race .If it is not a race then its a whitewash like the Gulf war and who wants a game representative of that?
I cant begin to imagine artillery in the 40s with the sniper rifle like precision we have in WT.
I picked the Cobra king because it has such good armour …should I say had good armour because now it does not.It has no amour when facing Bakaan and if it did survive the one shot another is a few seconds away.
Its all fantasy.
I don’t think it matters what type of later cold war artillery you face in a WW2 tank to be honest any more than it matters what type of nuke somebody drops : )
I can accent missiles in their time line,I can accept fast jets or HEAT FS etc in its right place WW2 is not the place and I still feel the first 6BRs are or should be WW2
Luckily the playerbase went “DON’T TOUCH MY APHE” like America goes “DON’T TOUCH MY BOATS”
and didn’t even entertain the idea of them testing it, much less implementing it. With gaijin’s past track record when they poked around under the hood of other shells, I agree with the community Don’t touch my APHE.
because they are annoying as hell to face for a couple different reasons, and they invalidate armor like HEAT vehicles so armor became even less valuable with their addition (armor was already the weakest of the mobility/armor/gun triangle by far before these were added, they made it worse)
They’re also just… offputting in that they are clearly too low of a BR for their era IRL. Meaning, you can be driving a Tiger 1 and see a 1980s SPG, which is more than a bit immersion breaking
Not the word I’d use, community voted for worse mechanics.
and yet they bring a whole new level of significant drawbacks. If anything, its FAR harder to aim an arty vehicle than aim a 122mm. Both for ballistic velocity and area of damage. A 122 rarely fails to kill. A 155mm will often do no damage, sometimes just blow out an engine, transmission, or gun, and has to aim significantly higher and significant more lead.
I find it amusing people think armor is so bad around br 4-7 when its nearly universally armored tanks that have been upteired. KVs and KV85s, IS2s, Tigers, Tiger 2s, Pershings, super pershings, Jumbos, T44. Only a few mobility vehicles ( Hellcat, R3) have seen similar. So if anything, it has been armor overprerforming.
This is a multiplayer game. If you bounce ONE shot, your armor has already done all it needs to. The idea that you can tank multiple shots with any tank is just a delusion of power. That isn’t how balance works.
More APHE fail to fuse than APDS shell shatter. Yet APDS is both a weaker round than APHE in game and still has shell shatter. If shell shatter exists, APHE should fail to fuse. APHE nations are universally the strongest nations. APHE either needs a drawback or a rebalance. Currently its the best of ALL worlds. If there was a 600 pen APHE round at top teir, i’m pretty sure many nations would main it over apfsds.
APHE failing to fuse is RNG, APDS shatter is still a mechanic being modelled despite and despite feeling like RNG, can be mitigated with practise. There’s no practise or skill associated with bad fuses on APHE shells, it will undermine player sense of agency and be a detriment to the game overall. Tanks also breakdown, and are shipped with faulty equipment, or missing parts during wars. Early on the developers toyed with the idea of including tanks that randomly break down in an attempt to make ‘reliability’ a component of the game.
Edit* P.S. one of the primary issues in War Thunder is when it comes to shell performance is the fact that crews will continue to fight undeterred by shell penetrations until they are unconcious/dead. In reality people behave differently to being shot and wounded. There isn’t a reliable way to model this in game without unfairly and inconsistently removing player controll and agency.
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No? Fuses have hard set rules.
The context in which I’m replying is a mechanic proposed by Zephoid to give APHE shells a chance of failing to fuse which would be RNG. I’m not discussing the mechanics of fuze sensititivity or timing of APHE shells as modelled in game.
Shells shatter is also random. It is based on angle, but it can happen on on flat unangled plates. Not only that, it can happen with a 480 pen conq round on a 40mm plate that even a shattered shell would go through. It also is plagued by plate overlaps triggering the shell shatter calculation twice. With not every vehicle having volumetric modeled that ends up being a nightmare of polka-dotted points to target based on nation and vehicle. As much as you try to ‘mitigate’ it its still rolling a dice every shot even in the best of scenarios. Literally exactly your argument terming it ‘undermining player sense of agency’.
Shells shatter is also random. It is based on angle, but it can happen on on flat unangled plates. Not only that, it can happen with a 480 pen conq round on a 40mm plate that even a shattered shell would go through. It also is plagued by plate overlaps triggering the shell shatter calculation twice. With not every vehicle having volumetric modeled that ends up being a nightmare of polka-dotted points to target based on nation and vehicle.
You may not agree, but the fact that you can describe the mechanics of the shell shattering in this manner elevates it significantly above the simple probability of an RNG based APHE fuse failure. Furthermore, with the exception of the shell shattering mechanic, all of the issues with thin plates, ricochets, volumetric armour eating shells, inconsistent damage etc are true for all ammunition in the game not just APDS. Honestly I much prefer whatever fast approximation we get in the game as opposed to my PC grinding to a halt everytime a shell impacts while the game client tries to run a finite element analysis of the impact. Also don’t think I’m being unsympathetic, the entire time we’ve been having this discussion there are replays in my head of the 2-3 times I’ve shot a Tiger H1 pointblank in the side, perpendicular with a 17pndr APDS and the shell was completely absorbed because I hit the tiny little steel sheet track guard that overlaps the bottom of the side sponson, or the countless shots out of my Tiger H1’s 88 that keep getting eaten by Sherman 76mm mantlets.
I have no evidence to support it but I feel like the majority of player complaints come down to unrealistic expectations. These expectations are partly to do with how war thunder inconsistently communicates shell impacts to the player in the form of issues with rendering the game, or inconsistencies with server vs local replays; in addition to the complete ignorance of players when it comes to the reality of different projectiles and their effects on various materials and the conditions under which they impact.
We’re playing a video game, with the exception of a few tankers, the only frame of reference people have is other video games, movies and books. So everyone’s suspension of disbelief is going to vary dramatically, and most people’s idea of what the game should feel like is deeply personal and has no real basis in reality. I stand by RNG fuses being a bad thing, while I agree that the mechanics of shell impacts can be improved, it’s not self evident to me that improving the reliability of impact/penetration physics can be achieved without compromising the current game, additionally I don’t consider the current inconsistencies of shell impacts to be an issue.