No, you won’t, because the 13.2mm hit 0.1s before the Type 99-2 do.
Also the target has to be exactly at 400m. The chance of hitting with both is high but if the target is moving fast and manuering, there is no guarantee you will hit with both.
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One of the options I stated.
- Keep current ammo belt comps but let the U.S. have real shatter on their .50s like other nations. This isn’t realistic at all by any measure. But if everyone is spewing out insane damage with single hits, the U.S. should have a round that hits like a truck too.
Keeping the same belt comps prevents the the U.S. from having the sweden effect of just detonating people with their machine guns since there’s no air targets, and the only way to get something similar is to use the stealth belt.
or
- Let the U.S. have more favorable belt compositions without touching the calculations of the ammunition. Which is what I prefer as it’s more balanced. You’re not having one random round in the belt just snapping wings.
Basically. Give the U.S. an air targets belt that consists of majority M23 and some API-T for the Late war belts.
M1 incendiary with some API and tracers for the mid war.
Then incendiary, AP, then tracers for the early war belts. This doesn’t change the stats of the gun. But it uses the stats of the already available rounds and just gives more of them. Again, the B-239 in the swedish tree uses U.S. ammunition and it has an air-targets belt of just U.S. incendiary and it doesn’t seem to be a completely broken mess.
Changing the other’s ammunition to be more in line with U.S. .50. As in, no Real Shatter, would make it more consistent, and probably even help Sweden the most, making it so some of their planes can go down slightly in BR
Yess gajin give me 50 cal slap ammo
Spoiler
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Maybe on MBT mounted HMGs 🙃
Obviously the ammo belts on those are somewhat obsolete.
With helictopers flying around a .50cal Raufoss Mk 211, would be convenient, as you get the full package of AP, Incendiary and fragmentation in one bullet.
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This blew my mind. I’ve been tearing my hair out the entire day with .50s
Usually grind a dude to pieces. They don’t die. I catch a dude on fire. he doesn’t die.
Chinese P-47 GRINDS UP my P-47 in a vertical stall after I messed up and lost track of him while dealing with a Bf-109 buddy. I was basically a free shot. All the damage he did. Barely anything worthwhile.
I was still fighting with ease.
I went on to catch an Fw-190 on fire (He only died by messing up his landing) and I fought a spitfire from a disadvantage, ALMOST GOT MY GUNS ON HIM Do-335, Bf-109 G-6 as I was stuck in a 3 v 1
.25s = 144px in image
Type 3 119px past .25s mark → 0.21s
Type 99-2 150px past .25s mark → 0.26s
Total flight time: 0.46s for Type 3 and 0.51s for Type 99-2, 0.05s difference. That’s 7m he travelled forwards (and numerically irrelevant still) but his relative vertical velocity was null at many points in the video
Oh right. Mistook the Ho-5 line for the Type 99-2 since the Ho-103 obscured the purple line.
Well, what can I say. You either didn’t hit with 20mm shells or they didn’t cause damage because of some bugged reason.
But what you are trying to argue makes no sense never the less. That’s like saying, my APHE got ghost shelled, so APHE deals no damage.
One instances, where shooting a plane and not inflicting lethal damage doesn’t occured, doesn’t make every other instances where 1-2 hits destroys the enemy invalid.
Just like how how a plane can take like a 100 .50cal API hits and not receive lethal damage, when no round hit engine, pilot or didn’t cause fuel fires.
There’s also the random natrue of realShatter, where 95% it works and 5% it just doesn’t make any sense.
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U.S. .50cals are underperforming, hence the need for a buff.
It’s more complex beyond under performing. It’s just that gaijin lets just about every aircraft in the game have ridiculous damage output in some way shape or form, usually due to a single round all the way down to other countries .50s. But when it comes to the U.S. we get nothing. Gaijin just assumes “Volume of fire will work.” But that falls flat on it’s face when you go the next 10 years nerfing and changing fire chances and now fires aren’t even guaranteed kills anymore unlike the past.
I’m sure some of you remember the 2013-2016 era where there was this unspoken agreement that if a dude’s on fire, he was going to die anyway and you let the dude have the kill. Simply because fires were that lethal. We also remember when gaijin basically overcorrected when tracer belts were almost a 50/50 chance to light a fire on a single round to where the U.S. couldn’t catch ANYONE on fire. And people moved on to ground targets, and everyone found out that… Wow. .50s suck.
Fires aren’t guaranteed kills anymore. I showed that with the Fw-190 clip. I caught him on fire TWICE and if he was higher up or closer to the airfield, he could’ve made it back, or if I wasn’t paying attention he could’ve killed me.
Sure .50s are nice when you can click at bombers and light them up, or snipe at specific parts of the bomber. But when you fight fighters. Basically what you’re fighting 99% of the time. Guess what? There’s usually not a lot to hit in those aircraft as a vast majority of these planes try to mount everything as centrally as possible and even if you do hit, you don’t have an actual decent chance to completely light them up unless you can strike their fueltanks multiple times or you get lucky.
There are a MULTITUDE of times where I shoot, thinking him passing through my spray will do something important… Nothing. ‘Hit’, ‘Hit’, ‘Hit’
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Honestly, the 12 .303 on the typhoon is better than .50cals
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I got 9 kills a few days ago with a Spitfire Mk IIa.
Even though that included 3 damaged planes landing on a run way.
The first 7 kills had me spent around 1700 bullets.
Then another 1000 for on a dive bomber and a bomber.
But ShKAS are also crazy effective in killing planes.
Pretty sure they deal the same DPS to an engine as a US .50cal.
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Ki-84 Hei (Ho-5 + Ho-155)
Not shown: the many times where hitting an aware enemy was impossible because I did not have 2000rds+ of higher velocity ammo or the volume of fire needed.
All the shooting was done within about 500m and very often much closer than that - shooting from afar is a luxury only really afforded to .50cals.
The only tracers are the AP shells in the nose 20mm guns and thus easy to spot. 30mm are tracerless and all HE, so any HE hits are at worst 20mm, and all of the big explosions are 30mm.
No less than two 20 or 30mm HE hits; no internal damage whatsoever. He’s perfectly flyable and only died because he flew into the ground while trying to dodge the rest.
Another wing root hit (confetti)
ANOTHER wing root hit - this one was definitely AP since the wing spar actually took damage
Now the middle.
Undoubtedly a 30mm HE shell blacked the fuselage, almost no internal damage apart from a light yellow fuel tank.
This guy only died after this because he found a hill to crash into.
This time they did what they were supposed to! (no better than what .50s would have done)
Starting to think these aren’t quite fusing properly on wing roots. The only clean one-hit wing snap happened when I hit a Hellcat’s wing gun magazines from no more than 300m away.
This bomber also took quite a few hits, a far cry from the “you hit them once and the tail comes off” spiel that you hear often.
You can see at least 3x 30mm holes in the tail there, 20mm ones are not shown individually. His tail EVENTUALLY came off. You can also see one of those 30mm hits only turned the rear fuselage yellow, RealShatter once again up to no good.
Some of these aren’t bad damage, but considering I have about as many shells in my entire plane as as single gun in a P-47 (and that one gets 8 of them), AND this is a much higher BR plane than any P-47, AND I’m closing in to point blank range every time in order to actually be able to hit people reliably, this is suboptimal damage.
And while many enemies died in a fraction of a second… this happened just as easily when I was playing the P-51C with just 4 guns and slower enemies. Low gun RoF also meant MANY enemies just flew through my 20 and 30mm shells with no damage.
A7M2 / A6M3 (Type 99 Model 2
Additional guns were disabled and only Tracer HEF-T belt used to eliminate any doubts.
Incredible damage!
There is DEFINITELY something going on with Type 99s. As before, I see my shells sparking on one and doing nothing when shot from behind.
And several more
Even after his tail gets detached, I’m still getting scammed
VERY lucky that I got his pilot here. The rest of the hits turned part of his tail red and that’s it.
No less than two hits straight into the center of the plane
This T18B was almost taking good damage until 5 HE shells sparked for no damage whatsoever (on top of a few more earlier)
Similar to above, except Type 99s REALLY like getting stuck on control surfaces and create even more sparks than the notoriously unreliable Ho-155s. Time on target needed in most cases was similar to .50cals, with greater effect in high deflection shots and worse elsewhere. They’ve become reliably unreliable and you’ll need a dozen shells from under 200m, hitting the middle of the enemy fighter to guarantee a kill.
Others
Hit by Hispanos
a glancing blow from a 190 D9 at point blank range. Still perfectly flyable.
what just a few 7.7s from point blank range will do
I know that if I could, I’d swap out the guns in many of my favorite fighters for american .50cals. The Type 99 section above it has made me even more sure of this. There’s not many upsides to 20mm cannons when .50cals are so ridiculously strong at everything that isn’t skin damage and every issue people have with them is more down to the planes they’re mounted in and poor aim.
Go ahead, put 8 of them in that A7M2 I flew earlier and let’s see what happens lmao.
More like arguing that APDS is not worth using over other available shells if half the time you just do nothing and have to shoot again. Which is what I do in the Bulldogs, the solid shot is a much more useful shell than APDS.
Or in a more apt comparison, if APHE instead had very few fragments and random dispersal, you’d see many players switch to solid/CE shells and/or other vehicles because you’d very often penetrate someone right where you’re supposed to, but fragment dispersion said no and they took pretty much no damage. In short, why nobody uses HESH anymore.
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May I get a server replay link? I’d like to watch
The Gaijin exchange rate seems to be roughly 2-3 x .50 cal = 1x 20 mm (unless it’s Russian, in which case all guns are counted as .30 cals and flight performance is ignored). Now, I love me some 20mm… but it would be hard to say no to having my guns doubled and my trigger time increased. ;-)
It’s easy to run out of ammo in the Ki-84… 150 rounds per gun at 950 rpm doesn’t last long. I might prefer that plane with 4x or 6x .50 cal. I haven’t even purchased the 5.7 and 6.3 version because it’s hard for me to see the guns as an upgrade and the flight performance is identical. On the bright side, when you burp 10+ rds into someone by simply tapping the trigger, they normally do the job if your aim is true.
Virtually any German prop with 2x Browning HMG instead of 1x MG151? Yes, please. Easy decision there ;-). Hell, you could argue just giving the Fw190 D-13 3x .50 cal with 500 rds per gun might be a straight upgrade by itself! I’d absolutely trade the nose mounted 20mm and 2x 7.92 in the 109s for 2x .50 cal with 400 rds per gun.
The exceptions, of course, would be the U.S. 20mms… which keep all of the advantages of .50 cal (though you can argue some variants are short on ammo) and simply add the advantages of the 20mm. There’s a reason the F8F-1B and F4U-4B vastly outperform their .50 cal counterparts which have better flight performance a full 1.3 BR lower. ;-)
I had an “exciting” moment in the P-47D-28 the other day. Found myself in a tough spot on Norway (the one and only time I’ve flown that map). There was one enemy fighter unaccounted for - a Bf-109K. He decided I was the guy. I managed to drag him down, but he was crafty enough to climb when he realized he couldn’t catch me. I was in “make something happen” mode because we were behind on tickets - turned around, he declined the head-on for an energy trap. I had about 450 IAS and thought “I can pull for that.” I absolutely peppered his 109 - turned him into Swiss Cheese. Luckily, I broke enough stuff that he was crippled and I could get him as he tried to run. It was pretty damn tense there for a moment as I came out of that stall though.
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They really aren’t. At least on the Otsu you could argue that it’s better since the guns are all of the same type and gunnery is easier. But the Hei’s 30mm potato launchers don’t do much and I WOULD rather have two .50cals instead of each one.
For the earlier guns I would very much like .50cals instead.
No. Usually, cannons have little ammo and muzzle velocity. 12.7 mm (at least from my experience with Ho-103 machine guns), have higher fire rate and muzzle velocity, which translates to being easier to aim, and being more forgiving. They have also a decent damage, meaning you don’t take long to destroy any fighter. Moreover, saying cannons are always one-shot isn’t true, as a person who plays Japan only, and therefore relies on Type 99 cannons, often cannon shells can be absorbed in certain angles.
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I have shown multiple times that 2 .50s don’t really do alot. Even when grinding down an enemy it doesn’t achieve much in the way of viable damage. While with just two japanese .50s (wing mounted) and even with crappy aim, I was able to reliably achieve multiple kills with just two guns, even made a clip showing you can break a plane apart even with just one gun.
Ten rounds doesn’t magically do anything if those rounds don’t hit anything important, especially since fires aren’t as strong as they used to be. your aim has to be much more ‘true’ compared to your enemy’s. As your rounds aren’t going to do damage unless you smack within convergence where your rounds COULD do something…
Smacked an Fw-190 with 8 .50s But because I didn’t hit anything gooey. My rounds sailed through with no damage.
This was an Fw-190 I set alight after he magically extinguished the flame The black tail already existed when I was grinding it to pieces. It looks like good damage until you realize I spent a heavy long burst on his tail, and the damage up front was only from the fire.
Before this. A P-47 raked through me
Basically doing nothing. I proceeded to fight a 3 v 1, still performing well the only difference was that I was more draggy. I almost killed a Spitfire in a fight, and a Do-335.
Easy there, mate. The exchange rate is an observation on my part.
The 10 rds remark was regarding Japanese 20mm, which are accompanied by nose mounted .50 cal at 900 rpm on the Ki-84 Ko. If I run into a scenario where 10 rds of Ho-5 20mm and ~9 rds of Ho-103 .50 cal don’t do the job, I’ll let you know ;-).
ETA: I also made this for you just now… the good and the bad ;-)
The P-51 clip is pretty straight forward. Look at the absolute bullet hose that is the P-47D-28 though! I had been tap firing that Wyvern for a while too. And the bomber? Just an absolutely ridiculous amount of fire - hard to do with many other weapons, even if the per shot damage is so-la-la.
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You have been shown multiple times to be wrong, and are either a terrible shot or missing on purpose.
Which has also been shown to be wrong, I have fired many times well out of convergence and killed the enemy in a fraction of a second.
Even recently playing the chinese P-47D-23 - identical to your most played plane - I have easily killed enemies with Default belts.
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The thing is, it showcases what I’m talking about.
If you hit something important (usually the the pilot and fuel tank) then it actually can do damage, especially as you might have multiple of those rounds hit.
But when you’re outside convergence, your rounds are just going to smack nothing value. I can spray and spray and spray, but my rounds are less likely to do anything since I’m not within convergence to actually hit something important, while with Japanese .50s I just gotta get touched a couple of times and I’m heavily damaged. I already showed how I got grinded center of mass by another P-47, but because the rounds flew through and didn’t touch nothing important. I still came out alive and I killed him shortly afterwards.
Again a good chunk of these can be mitigated based on the shot. If it’s a dude who’s not maneuvering much you can sorta get around it. This is even worse when you’re having to make shots within 0.3km in a half a second but because he’'s outside the convergence, I may have had him dead to rights, but I just skip through his wings but my guns don’t line up
But when you’re actively in a fight where a dude is trying to kill you. It’s really annoying to make multiple passes and multiple hits that don’t accomplish much in sharp awkward deflection shots while if I had some other country’s .50s. There’s a good chance those hits might be something scary.
I simply don’t want to be constrained to belts that just makes me ONLY poke holes in people. I want to be able to actually have incendiary in a significant enough quantity that I can actually have glancing blows that might contribute to something.