The issue is that you’re using weird exceptionals. You’re shooting a heavily armored aircraft mixed with it being one of the few aircraft with super tanky DMs and complaining about no fires when literally me and Kiwi agree. Dice roll fires are dumb.
The fact you basically blackened the entire aircraft shows that you beat the ever living dogsnot outta it. 6 fifties wouldn’t be much better in fact, I’d argue it’d be harder as at that angle you shot. .50 have a hard time penetrating the 9mm steel plate that protects the pilot and co pilot and I wouldn’t be surprised if it wasn’t from 20mm shrapnel penetrating the glass hitting them both. The only place the .50s could do easy damage would be the tail or fuel tanks.
Kiwi is talking about people spraying .50cals and landing maybe 1 or 2 hits which then light you on fire. I landed at minimum 7 HE-I hits directly on several fuel tanks with splash damage on every single other fuel tank on top of several SAP-I rounds and 10-20 .50cal rounds. How is that crying about no fire when I literally stacked the odds in my favor.
Cannons have been extremely inconsistent as of late.
I hit him MORE and from closer after this video ends, right until he made it back to his airfield. No visible damage and he was flying just fine the entire time.
A reminder that this plane has two “basically 20mms” 13.2mm MGs and two Type 99 Model 2s, which are usually one of the better cannons for anti-air work; and with that I checked the server replay.
By the end of this (not shown in video) I was at no more than 400m away and getting shot at by airfield AA. He has taken numerous hits, most of them just sparked, and he was still more than flyable enough to dodge and return to the airfield.
If I had 8x .50cals he would have died on the first hit to a fire or pilot kill. What’s the point of having 20mms if you lose 95% of your ammo and still need to shoot several times way too often?
No problems at killing planes. 170 rounds spent, 5 kills including an AI bomber.
At the same time I was really lazy to evade a P-47, which hit me with a burst and set me on fire.
But in typical Japanese fashion the fire stopped after 5 seconds, leaving me damaged but still operational:
I am very familiar with Type 99 Model 2 ballistics. They were hitting, and at several points I saw the 1/4 HEF-T tracer connect so I know I was on target, especially at the start of the video; IAI doesn’t make those big explosion clouds either.
This is 20mm HEF damage if you hit the flaps. Removes the flap, deals SOME damage to the wing. As per server replay.
And two things:
this still does not explain all the sparks I had, which regardless of what was hitting should have been more than enough to at least slow him down;
this proves 13.2s aren’t hitting super hard (like 20mms, what was claimed above) because he’d be dead if they were. Instead, he sat in front of my guns at no more than 700m the entire time, tanked a dozen hits, and lived for long enough to turn around and go back to the airfield. Again, what’s the point in having cannons if 8x .50cals would have done much better?
The advantage of multiple, small fuel tanks and relatively low fuel loads. A 109 won’t do that.
Damage vs Flight performance seems incredibly inconsistent.
I’ve had my Ki-61 torn to pieces by A26s one match and naturally I had barely any turn performance and my top speed was barely 400 km/h.
Next time I got my mustang torn to absolute shreds and I maintained my turn performance and 600 km/h top speed no problem despite blackened wings.
(also I wish for Warthunder to give us proper wing damage decals. Neither the Ki nor the Mustang looked any worse to wear and only the damage doll told me anything. Pls give sth like this to warthunder:
There’s no denying that .50cal explosives rounds hit as hard as real life 20mm cannons.
And two .50cals with explosive rounds are pretty much as effective as a single 20mm cannon in WT.
It’s all about hitting the the same area to inflict lethal damage. And two wing mounted guns are hardly ever going to hit the same area.
You showed that hitting the edge of the flap, doesn’t cause lethal damage to wings necessarely.
So it’s almost like: Just because you hit an aircraft doesn’t mean you inflict lethal damage.
A few cm of shot placement can make the difference.
Which is like comparing a center of mass shot against a tank, vs. one that hit the edge of the vehicle.
It depends on the airplane. B-29s can lose their outboard engines in WT. Most planes with wing mounted engines have invulnerable inner wing/wing root damage areas though. They don’t even make the plane fly worse if you destroy those areas, which is ridiculous.
There’s a few planes where wing damage will create visible holes that you can look through, but these are very rare. Unless they disabled that since last time I saw it…
He’s still flying though. Clearly these 13.2s aren’t doing much though. I was told these guns would onetap anything by hitting anywhere.
You mean like his wings, that I hit several times, even not counting all the sparks which would not have happened with .50cals?
Four. Four wing-mounted guns. All well within their effective ranges.
If you paid attention to the video or server replay screenshots, you would have seen that I hit him in many places in the wings, with guns that, quote:
“One shot of explosive 20mm ammunition is sufficient to tear a wing off.”
???
20mm HE are doing that.
If this was true, that 109 would have been dead a dozen times over even with all the sparks.
I hit him right in the tail and it somehow didn’t fall off. I hit both of his wings and neither fell off. Clearly 20mm cannon damage isn’t overtuned since he did, in fact, survive more than a few 20mm hits.
So can the PB4Y but striking the Nacelle itself doesn’t actually cause just the nacelle to fall off. if an aircraft has 4 or more engines, it’s more likely it will be able to lose the outer engines by virtue of the whole wing falling off.
Hilarious, it’s been shown multiple times other country’s 12.7mms are hitting like 20mm cannons and the U.S’s brownings don’t.
No you are thinking about Belgium FN 13.2mm Explosive bullets. But that was at a time when planes where constructured mostly from wood and didn’t react that well having a projectile explode within them.
Or maybe you are just refering to people saying that .50cal explosive bullets will kill your plane in one shot.
It’s not difficult to see that it takes 2, at most 3, explosive bullets to turn a wing area black.
But you still need to hit that area multiple times to do that.
Dude, WT is already so generous with their damage model. Every freaking wing is made out of three section and you only need to land 2-3 hits in a 2x2m area to rip it off and score a kill.
Just because you hit him all over his plane, doesn’t mean his wing will magically fall off.
I was talking about the .50cal MGs. You obviously didn’t hit with 20mm shells or only in such way that they didn’t cause major damage to the wings.
Yet his plane turned yellow and orange all over the place because your 13.2mm MGs hit him all over the place.
It’s literally impossible to hit with 20mm in the wing and not turn them black. He didn’t have black wings so you didn’t him with 20mm rounds where it counts.
I’ve literally one tapped players with 20mm cannons and I also showed how 12.7mm IAI can rip a P-63 tail off, if you hit it a few times.
First of all, you can clearly survive 20mm hits, and secondly you simply can not prove where your 20mm rounds hit. And let’s not forget that you are using a 20mm belt that also contains APHE, and not just explosive rounds.
A 109 isn’t that big, you can’t hit a guy a dozen times without having some hits land in the same places.
Sure looks like a 20mm hit to me. Pretty big explosion.
Uh huh.
13.2s have very similar ballistics to the Type 99 Model 2s. If they are hitting, so are the 20s. This is even more true for me since I use Vertical Targeting and he was well within 400m convergence’s effectiveness.
And I’ve onetapped players with two 7.7s, big deal. But if I’m going to have to listen to people endlessly whine and kvetch that 20mms are too strong, I don’t want to ALSO have to deal with hitting someone a dozen times and them still being more than airworthy enough to RTB.
Only 1/4 APHE, the rest is all HE. And I know it wasn’t just APHE hitting because it also doesn’t create those big fragment clouds that we see.
1- Which is precisely what I’m saying? Unlike what has been claimed in this thread, over and over again?
Except with 20mm you would still decimate or heavily damage the dude with just 1-2 stray hits
And 2- it has also been claimed in this thread that you can “just hit them anywhere with HE .50s and they die”, in which case… all the 13.2mm hits I got should have been more than enough. On top of that, M2 .50s don’t spark ever (because they don’t explode), so the other half of my hits would have actually done something. This is not counting all the extra hits I would have because I’d have twice as many guns, 4x the ammo, and higher velocity.
We are talking about landing hits on a 30cm thick wing from 400m away.
I’m talking about snapping a wing or tail of dude.
Dude, cry me a river.
You literally can destroy planes in 0.1s using 20mm cannons and you posted one instances where you pretend like 20mm damage isn’t overperforming, since you insist that you didn’t just hit him a dozen times with 13.2mm rounds instead of cannons.
What you see and what the games thinks happeneds are completely different things.
And if you hit an already black radiator, guess what, it doesn’t do anything to him.
And striking an elevator also doesn’t bring down a plane.
I don’t care what people claim.
I’m not your personal moderator that should answer all your questions.
What kind of discussion is that?
„You say this, but it contradicts what another person said so, your stance is now invalid.“
Use your brain.
You have protection analysis that clearly shakes the structural damage to plans by either .50cal API, explosive bullet or 20mm shell.
I don’t have anything to discuss with anymore, as what I said stands.
Nitpicking not killing a plane while firing multiple armaments at the same time has been done since the beginning of the game.
But the server replay shows exactly what kind of damage was inflicted.
They’re about .05s apart at 400m, and vertical targeting ensures both are hitting the same place. You’re not going very far in .05s.
Sure don’t see it happening there, or on the video below. Maybe with J6K since it has six of them.
Both of my armaments have very similar velocity and ballistics, both are aimed on the vertical axis at the same point, and both are located effectively in the same place in my plane. Tap firing means there’s also very little RoF desync happening. I know both are hitting, and I can see it in the server replay especially when they randomly explode several meters behind the enemy plane and do no damage.
But hey maybe you ARE right and that’s just the 13.2s hitting, despite everything pointing to the contrary. The A6M3 doesn’t have 13.2s, let’s see what happens against relatively fragile Spitfires.
Two of them eat a dozen 20mm shells and lose a wing. The others eat a dozen 20mm shells, lose a flap, and still fly more than well enough to keep the dogfight going. If I had .50cals here like my P-51C they’d all be dead in the first pass each, and they’d be dead sooner since I’d be able to shoot sooner - because .50cals don’t travel at 580m/s.
Yes, the game thinks half my shells exploded several meters behind the 109, which would never happen with .50cals.
Your own claims don’t stand up to scrutiny. Maybe I should start scrolling through your replies here as well to find instances where you claimed that HE .50s and 20mms would just onetap enemies every time.
Yes, it shows many hits by 13.2 and 20mm ammunition doing next to nothing. Incredible damage output.
I usually don’t record guns doing no damage because that’s just not very exciting to watch, but from now on I think I will do just that. This way I can make a supercut edition video of cannons totally overperforming and absolutely NOT hitting for no visible damage.
Actually there are exactly 0.1s appart to reach 400m.
He was flying at 520kph, thats 14m in 0.1s.
And even 0.05s would still mean 7m away from his last position.
So bad news. Just because their ballistic aren’t far appart doesn’t mean you will actually hit with both when you are targeting a fast moving maneuvering target.
You do hit with both if you’re using vertical targeting & shooting at ~convergence. That’s one of its primary purposes (second one is to actually make it line up with gunsight from cockpit view. Third is to reduce the amount you gotta lead enemies with in maneuver fights for planes with bad ballistics and nose guns, setting it to 800meters).
