.50's deserve a buff

[dovah4]

Actually trash-tier example because the vast majority of all your hits were either on forward fuselage or the engine nacelle of the Yak-2 where wing snapping doesn’t actually occur. Even 20mm wouldn’t have done much too much to most of the spots you hit. That quite literally is just bad luck.

@_Zekken

I cant believe, after 400+ messages, despite gigantic piles of literal video evidence proving the exact opposite of your claim, you, the person who still has only flown SEVEN battles in non US planes, and only 41 battles in cannon armed Prop aircraft, for a total of 18 kills, You are STILL trying to argue that this is the case.

You have provided zero evidence of any form to support your claim. Your entire argument hinges on "M2 brownings do less damage because I feel they do, and that I don’t count fires, control surface damage, or anything except a wing snap as “real damage”.

Thats it. that is the extent of your argument, With next to no experience in anything that you are trying to argue against, with people who have literal thousands of games in aircraft of all types.

You even try to suggest that .50s are putting less Mass out lmfao, the game GIVES you the one second burst mass of every plane in the game. It takes you two seconds to look it up.

You mean the evidence I’ve shown how singular japanese .50s can do ridiculous amounts of damage? But according to gaijin. 1 gram of petn somehow can rip to shreds huge sections of wings? Burst mass doesn’t actually mean anything if the round doesn’t do diddly squat.

Ki-44 vid 1

Again. I used only the outboard guns. and with just two guns I can rip planes apart with ease.

Just two guns.

ki-44 vid 2

What’s even funny too, is that you were shown from a pyrotechnics manual that incendiaries should have explosive effects. But, you shove your fingers in your ears and cover your eyes hoping the data goes away. You literally were given documentation showing “Yeah this stuff should actually be pretty explosive”

You give your thumbs up for planes with .50 cals that can literally detonate people with two guns while I’m in my P-47 with american brownings having to get most of my kills from pilot snipes, and you balk and screech when I dare even say “Maybe the incendiaries should be a bit stronger.” for a set of planes that barely have any incendiary in them.

@TheAA20Guy

Yeah, .50s are terrible.

You struck rear control surfaces, they are exceptionally weak to any gun in the game. Even 7.7s could do that. I’m not joking.
Also. Based Heavenly enjoyer.

[PercussionCap]

@dovah4

because the vast majority of all your hits were either on forward fuselage or the engine nacelle of the Yak-2 where wing snapping doesn’t actually occur

That’s not what you claimed previously.

@dovah4

Japanese, Italian, Swedish machine guns. You just have to hit somewhere to hurt bad.

So what is it? Either they have to aim to do damage like with US .50cals, or they don’t have to aim and everything just dies. Clearly it’s not the latter, otherwise I wouldn’t have died to a Yak-2 that ate a bunch of these “onetap” HEF shells and kept flying just fine.

@dovah4

Again. I used only the outboard guns. and with just two guns I can rip planes apart with ease.

The same would have happened if using US .50cals. He was pretty much stalled out in front of your guns.

These .50cals are SO POWERFUL… that they hit him a bunch of times and only actually killed that Ki-61 when you got within 150m of him.

@dovah4

while I’m in my P-47 with american brownings having to get most of my kills from pilot snipes

Skill issue.

Was doing some sim dogfights with a friend the other day. He crossed in front of my guns, I fired just 49 shots as he crossed in front of me, undoubtedly many missed and only a few of those hit. That was enough to rip off his wing just a few seconds later.

But no, 50cals are totally weak even though they’re by far the easiest to aim of all the aircraft I flew that night and all planes with them had zero difficulty in removing either of us from the fight.

[dovah4]

@PercussionCap

That’s not what you claimed previously.

What did I even claim? Did you gaslight yourself into believing I said things I never did?

I have stated before there are simply parts of the aircraft that won’t break because they aren’t coded to break. The nacelles won’t break off in-game. No matter what gun. You can have a direct hit with a 155mm cannon and it won’t budge. it might bra If you shoot in the upper fuselage that won’t break because it’s not programmed to snap.The inboard wings of any twin engine fighters won’t snap for whatever reason.

@PercussionCap

So what is it? Either they have to aim to do damage like with US .50cals, or they don’t have to aim and everything just dies. Clearly it’s not the latter, otherwise I wouldn’t have died to a Yak-2 that ate a bunch of these “onetap” HEF shells and kept flying just fine.

Never said the japanese .50s were one-shot kills. You can use this function called the ‘search bar’ in the top right up there and see that for yourself.

@dovah4

12.7mm HEF can blacken a wing in two shots. Now from other angles, it can be a bit iffy but it’s mostly consistent that a good chunk of your shots will do a lot of damage, and I believe that some rounds not doing anything is not ‘as gaijin intended’ but a weird quirk as I believe most of the damage is coming from fragments that strike the same surface, doing more damage. This explains why you’ll sometimes take shots that do minimal damage while others you out right obliterate the guy.

You need to print this quote out and tape it to the corner of your monitor so you can remember because this is like the 2nd or third time I had to correct.

@PercussionCap

The same would have happened if using US .50cals. He was pretty much stalled out in front of your guns.

Are you sure? Use only 2 U.S. .50s. Dumped on him anyway because he was annoying. Funny how you ignore the P-63 vid as I separate BOTH his wings with a short burst from the jap .50s with the majority of the damage coming from one gun each on each wing.

Please. Show me that U.S. .50s can do that much damage with 1 gun.

@PercussionCap

Skill issue.

You’re forgetting I have good K/Ds on the P-47Ds. But sure go on.
You got good RNG. Congrats your API-T worked for once. They’re just not that good. I can say that you have skill issues with japanese .50s
I dump U.S. .50s into a guy. I have to get lucky with a fire or get a pilot snipe.
I dump Japanese .50s into a guy he either dies or I know his aircraft is severely injured because he’s trying to run away at that point and I can finish him off.

[_Zekken]

@dovah4

You mean the evidence I’ve shown how singular japanese .50s can do ridiculous amounts of damage? But according to gaijin. 1 gram of petn somehow can rip to shreds huge sections of wings? Burst mass doesn’t actually mean anything if the round doesn’t do diddly squat.

The response you quoted was to speclistmain1. Not you. He has provided no evidence or information to the discussion to enforce his claim. You have quite clearly done so. My argument was not with you in that post.

@dovah4

What’s even funny too, is that you were shown from a pyrotechnics manual that incendiaries should have explosive effects. But, you shove your fingers in your ears and cover your eyes hoping the data goes away. You literally were given documentation showing “Yeah this stuff should actually be pretty explosive”

I dont think I ever quoted any of your discussions about the Incendiary rounds, or had made any comments on them. In fact I was confused why so much discussion was going into a round that is only in like two different belts and was only like one in every 6 rounds being fired out of those belts. Meanwhile all the clips I posted were using almost exclusively M20 API-T rounds, which sure weren’t exploding, but were consistently setting fires and have no problems with destroying enemy planes.

@dovah4

You give your thumbs up for planes with .50 cals that can literally detonate people with two guns while I’m in my P-47 with american brownings having to get most of my kills from pilot snipes, and you balk and screech when I dare even say “Maybe the incendiaries should be a bit stronger.” for a set of planes that barely have any incendiary in them.

I believe I showed you in all of my clips that most of my kills were not from pilot snipes, with me reinforcing MULTIPLE times about how I was literally not having to bother aiming specifically for anything on their plane to kill it with .50 cals, instead just aiming in its general direction and watching it desintegrate.

Again the whole argument comes down to what KillaKiwi summed up 2 weeks ago:

@KillaKiwi

Therefore the entire discussion revolves around:

• (US) .50cals should be buffed because it’s unfair that other ammunition types are more effective

And

• (US) .50cals should not be buffed because there is no need to make them more effective than they currently are

My opinion lies firmly in agreement with the second statement.

[PercussionCap]

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.

[dovah4]

@_Zekken

I believe I showed you in all of my clips that most of my kills were not from pilot snipes, with me reinforcing MULTIPLE times about how I was literally not having to bother aiming specifically for anything on their plane to kill it with .50 cals, instead just aiming in its general direction and watching it desintegrate.

The problem is that your videos boil down to "See? It makes a ton of damage! You just have to be sure you have every single round get dumped on target… "

I can argue that the Typhoon Mk1/a would be fine going up in BR with it’s cannon armed variant because if you score the vast majority of your rounds on target, you’re going to rip someone apart no matter the caliber. Guess what? 7.7s can pilot snipe too! Or that the Hurricane mk ii/trop should be 3.0 because it carries 12 guns. Of course this is sarcasm. But this shows my point that if you can get the majority of rounds to hit target a specific point, you’re going to crap damage on people. Just a reminder too. This was a 6 kill game. But as everyone points out. The 7.7s don’t have great damage potential.

PLS GAIJIN 7/7s TOO STRONG PLS FIX

7.7s are too OP pls up in BR gaijin pweeze

[dovah4]

@PercussionCap

These kills are all mostly sequential. I’m not showing the pilot snipes, which are also much more common than when using other aircraft becasue .50cals can easily penetrate pilot armor and will put many more bullets in the air. The probability of hitting the pilot is just higher.
Using the F-80A alongside the premium M46 has been incredibly easy, much easier than using the Kikka for the same role which has to contend with worse flight performance, much lower trigger time, much lower volume of fire, and temperamental accuracy. On this alone the Kikka should go down to 6.7 or the F-80A moved up to 7.3, it is just unfair

Congrats you showed the only time .50s can actually be decent. Wowsers Holy moly! A large amount of .50s in a nose configuration all packed tightly in one area! WOW Almost like how I’ve been saying that the only way to get a kill is to have all your rounds smack a concentrated area! Almost like you don’t read what I say!

@PercussionCap

Oh so NOW they’re not the death beams that you and others have been pretending they are? Convenient.

literally Ignoring what I posted before. Hurt bad doesn’t mean “It kills you instantly.” You literally do not read. It’s MIGHTY convenient that you’re just ignoring what I say then taking highly convenient sentences, piecing them together without context and then proclaiming I’m making the constructed point you made! :D It’s not worth talking to you because you’re making claims I never said. Lying about what I say! It’s almost like you do this on purpose!

[coffee_can-psn]

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.

[_Zekken]

@dovah4

The problem is that your videos boil down to "See? It makes a ton of damage! You just have to be sure you have every single round get dumped on target… "

Im not sure what your argument is here? That if you hit the target they die, but if you miss they dont?

Sure 7.7s are pathetic, no arguments there. They suck. But a set of 6x M2 brownings that most US planes have, as I have shown, dont need any longer bursts to kill enemies than a set of 20mms do. (Its just what is actually damaged that is different)

@dovah4

Congrats you showed the only time .50s can actually be decent. Wowsers Holy moly!

Just ignoring all the evidence I spent like 4 days worth of sessions playing, recording, and editing for you here.

[WolfgangTheSecon]

I’m actually really surprised at the amount of effort you’ve been putting into this argument. Usually the most effort people put in for evidence is showing kill feeds and such, so it’s commendable, and normally you’d think the proof would be enough.

[PercussionCap]

@dovah4

Congrats you showed the only time .50s can actually be decent.

“The only time”

I made sure to record mostly sequential kills, pretty much only skipping pilot snipes or other extraordinary situations, like a P-47 that had one of his bombs explode.

Let’s add one more to the pile.

Tu-2 flying straight, I only have 206rds left.

I then proceed to entirely miss 30 of them.

By the time I ran out (not very long) his entire plane was badly damaged and he had two fires. He did not survive.

@dovah4

A large amount of .50s

Just six, the same as most US planes. Less than the P-47s you are using and complaining about.

@dovah4

in a nose configuration all packed tightly in one area!

I don’t have the guns mod so accuracy is low. You can achieve the same result with convergence settings.

@dovah4

Almost like how I’ve been saying that the only way to get a kill is to have all your rounds smack a concentrated area!

So just shoot them then? The F-80 is much faster than most of my targets, I have less trigger time than a prop would.

To go back to your previous post:

@dovah4

Are you sure? Use only 2 U.S.

This is the chinese P-51C. This is a P-63 I only hit with two guns since the rudder sucks and I rolled just in time to both shoot him a little and avoid a crash. This giant ball of fire was caused by just ~10rds, assuming all the shots from the right side guns actually hit.

Do you think he survived that?

Also… good job falsely reporting my previous post. Really making you look like the one in the right here.

[dovah4]

@_Zekken

Im not sure what your argument is here?

Most other country’s machine guns of similar caliber can either kill you quickly or completely cripple you with just a few hits while with U.S. .50s you need to get concentrated bursts on a specific spot lest you do absolutely minimal damage.

Your videos basically just show that. It’s why I made the videos with the Typhoon

@_Zekken

Sure 7.7s are pathetic, no arguments there. They suck. But a set of 6x M2 brownings that most US planes have, as I have shown, dont need any longer bursts to kill enemies than a set of 20mms do. (Its just what is actually damaged that is different)

You seem to not understand. The point I’m making is that you can construe and say ‘any’ gun in the game is ‘good’ as long as you can get all your rounds to hit target. Why do you think I put obviously sarcastic title names for the videos on the Typhoon I made? I’m basically hyperbolizing how you presented your videos of the .50s. By showcasing that 7.7s are ‘’‘’‘overpowered’‘’’ and any plane with them should move up in BR. Because I ripped planes apart with them because I got a “good burst”

We all know they suck because they don’t do damage on a per-round basis… Something something… U.S. .50s have a similar issue too.

@_Zekken

But a set of 6x M2 brownings that most US planes have, as I have shown, dont need any longer bursts to kill enemies than a set of 20mms do.

No? They kinda do. Again, per round basis. I will snap wings EASILY with 20mm. I can make snapshots all day and obliterate people with 20mm. .50s I can’t snapshot with unless I hit pilots or RNG blesses me and I get a fire. Japanese .50s I can snapshot with and either outright obliterate or severely cripple them. Everyone gets guns that horrifically damage me in just 1-2 shots, nearly no matter their caliber, while my enemies can feel confident in tanking rounds from me without much loss in flight performance.

I’ll slap a bf-109 with some API-T and he’ll just eat it and I have to go for another pass or he survives and chases me while another friend of his decides to latch onto me and the initial guy isn’t damaged enough to have any real severe loss in performance. while with japanese .50s I will get just a few hits on him and he’s either missing his wing or he’s so damaged that trying to sustain the fight isn’t worth it and he’s out to try and RTB. Meanwhile I only have to deal with his friend.

That’s what your ground RB videos fail to show.

[RunaDacino]

@dovah4

You seem to not understand. The point I’m making is that you can construe and say ‘any’ gun in the game is ‘good’ as long as you can get all your rounds to hit target. Why do you think I put obviously sarcastic title names for the videos on the Typhoon I made? I’m basically hyperbolizing how you presented your videos of the .50s. By showcasing that 7.7s are ‘’‘’‘overpowered’‘’’ and any plane with them should move up in BR. Because I ripped planes apart with them because I got a “good burst”

Difference in 7.7 vs .50 cal -

.50 cal will easily “rake” through most aircraft when shot from a 6 o clock position, nullifying the tail structure and pilot armour.

7.7 will get stopped by pilot armour if it even makes it through the tail section.

Funnily enough, mineshells suffer from a similar issue. I’ve recently had a game where I got up on a Spitfire’s 6 in my Bf109E4, unloaded into the spitfire and rather than get a pilot kill I just shot the rudder off due to lack of penetrating power. With .50s this would be a confirmed kill. With mineshells it turned into an assist.

This isn’t to say mineshells are bad - they ripped the rudder off nicely. However, it does show the importance of a bullet’s capability to penetrate deeply, which 7.7 lack.

.50 cal is a pilot kill from this angle/distance/time on target, mineshell is structure-destruction at this angle/distance/time on target, 7.7 is eaten by the tail.

(it fails to penetrate armour entirely)

(it fuses on skin, it got the kill because the shot also hit the tail and ripped the rudder off, which when the spitfire tried to pull/turn caused it to irrecoverably enter a spin)

(yes, 1 shot only turns pilot orange but that’s 6 shots being fired at once at pretty high volume, so it’s very high probability of a kill).

[dovah4]

@RunaDacino

Difference in 7.7 vs .50 cal -

You missed the entire point. It’s not a serious showcase that the 7.7s are overpowered, the titles of the videos should tell you that, they’re sarcastic. It’s not a legitimate point I’m making. It’s to show if you grind multiple guns down on any opponent in a specific spot and get a good burst in, you’ll rip them apart, almost no matter the caliber. So making videos of you grinding people to bits doesn’t actually prove anything because I can achieve similar results with 7.7

We all agree 7.7s are bad but that’s because per round damage sucks.
The point I’m trying to make is that U.S. .50s. per round damage also sucks and other countries with similar calibers can do hand-over-fist levels of damage more with a single round compared to a single U.S. .50

Part of this is due to .50s belts being consistent of mostly AP rounds. while in belts like the universal belt, the only incendiary rounds you get that have filler, don’t actually do much damage. And they barely make up the belt anyway. So you essentially have empty room in the belt because the incendiary rounds don’t do much damage and you don’t get enough of them to do damage with their current damage output

so either… buff the damage output of U.S. incendiary rounds. Or give U.S. a belt that has mostly incendiary. What I don’t understand is that Gaijin does this with the B-239 with AP-T and three incendiaries. Of which it’s basically armed with U.S. .50s. and U.S. M1 Incendiary. Of course M1 incendiary is less effective because it only does damage on the most outboard wings.
So we have evidence of it already in the game. Why not create something similar for the U.S.?

[RunaDacino]

Fair enough.

I’m all for better belts personally, and not just for .50 cals either. I feel it’d be very beneficial for italian planes, too.

I do want to insist though that not all rounds/planes need to do the same kind of damage to be lethal and effective. .50s are amazing for pilot snipes/engine kills due to their incredible penetrating power while other rounds get fuzed/blocked by armour plating. For my perspective (shooting from angles & distances as in the clip), they are quite effective rounds without much complaint.

[dovah4]

@RunaDacino

I do want to insist though that not all rounds/planes need to do the same kind of damage to be lethal and effective. .50s are amazing for pilot snipes/engine kills due to their incredible penetrating power while other rounds get fuzed/blocked by armour plating. For my perspective (shooting from angles & distances as in the clip), they are quite effective rounds without much complaint.

I agree the U.S. is unique in that it’s their main mechanism of damage because there really isn’t any other option.
My issue is that the U.S.'s guns… Are all in the wings. Which is strange to think about as the .50s would be perfect nose mounted weaponry, but they’re rarely in that config. The AP does exceptional damage to the fuselage whilst at the same time has a high firerate. It’s why planes with mixed wing and nose armaments like the P-63 and A-36 can do insane damage output and seem easier to get kills with. It’s why I’m thankful of my ‘custom convergences’ suggestion being accepted. That way the inboard wings of guns can have a shorter convergence to try and mimic that nose mounted effect.

It’s why I consider for cannons, wing mounted is superior to nose mounted.

@RunaDacino

I do want to insist though that not all rounds/planes need to do the same kind of damage to be lethal and effective.

I get what you mean. But when you have comparative calibers being able to cause massive loads of damage on the wings they end up just being mini cannons and I look back at the U.S. .50s going "Why can’t they do an inkling of something similar? it’s a case of “If everyone’s guns are stupidly broken. Why aren’t mine?”

If everyone is going to have broken damage output in a singular round. Buff the round to at least do something, or give america a vast majority of it’s round. and I think the better case without changing stats is to let the U.S. just have more incendiary.

[RedEye_ツ]

@dovah4

U.S. .50s going "Why can’t they do an inkling of something similar? it’s a case of “If everyone’s guns are stupidly broken. Why aren’t mine?”

That’s a poor way to ask for a change. Cuz depending of how you word it out, looks like you are just coping as a US main.

@dovah4

If everyone is going to have broken damage output in a singular round. Buff the round to at least do something, or give america a vast majority of it’s round. and I think the better case without changing stats is to let the U.S. just have more incendiary.

Yeah now that’s a better idea. Try to find a solution that is more likely to get Gaijin to listen n be able to change with what they have now.

For example: They probably wouldn’t go out of their way and add TNT equivalency to flash powder since they keep rejecting such reports and treat it as suggestions instead.

But perhaps you could try to address the Incendiary rounds issue / belt composition since no new code/ mechanic is needed.

Still a difficult task tho.

Really sad that some valuable reports are ignored or take forever to be implemented. While abominations like the Klimb Afterburner (the one that butchered the entire Fw190A line thermals) one gets added immediately with no source whatsoever.

[WolfgangTheSecon]

Again, per round basis.

That’s the problem. Per-round is irrelevant, and shouldn’t be what the discussion is centering on, especially if you’re comparing .50s to 20mms. Per-volume, considering higher rate of fire and gun-count, .50s hold their own against German 20mms fairly well damage wise. Now, granted, their damage performance drops off a bit when compared to other 20mms that are more accurate and have better ballistics, but again, .50s should not be on par with 20mms.

Fixing the pure incendiary round is certainly something that should be done, but that’s on the round’s own merit, not to fix a disadvantage that’s supposedly to blame for American teams failing. I’d rather like pure incendiary rounds in general to be fixed, because there’s nothing more crushing that managing to actually hit a shot with an Mk108 just for it to be the incendiary round that hit, and get less damage than with a .50 cal (when the round, do my knowledge, has something around 120-140 grams of thermite).

[dovah4]

@WolfgangTheSecon

That’s the problem. Per-round is irrelevant, and shouldn’t be what the discussion is centering on, especially if you’re comparing .50s to 20mms. Per-volume, considering higher rate of fire and gun-count, .50s hold their own against German 20mms fairly well damage wise. Now, granted, their damage performance drops off a bit when compared to other 20mms that are more accurate and have better ballistics, but again, .50s should not be on par with 20mms

Not saying they should be on par with 20mm.

But that the U.S. should at least be comparable in damage output to other country’s 12.7mms

I’ve been pointing out and showing that other country’s 12.7mm machine guns having the capacity to two shot entire wing structures. While U.S. brownings basically do no damage unless you start a fire or you strike the pilot. The reason why below.

Per-round basis does matter as I illustrated in my Typhoon videos and when I emphasized my point to RunaDacino

@dovah4

You missed the entire point. It’s not a serious showcase that the 7.7s are overpowered, the titles of the videos should tell you that, they’re sarcastic. It’s not a legitimate point I’m making. It’s to show if you grind multiple guns down on any opponent in a specific spot and get a good burst in, you’ll rip them apart, almost no matter the caliber. So making videos of you grinding people to bits doesn’t actually prove anything because I can achieve similar results with 7.7

We all agree 7.7s are bad but that’s because per round damage sucks.
The point I’m trying to make is that U.S. .50s. per round damage also sucks and other countries with similar calibers can do hand-over-fist levels of damage more with a single round compared to a single U.S. .50

Part of this is due to .50s belts being consistent of mostly AP rounds. while in belts like the universal belt, the only incendiary rounds you get that have filler, don’t actually do much damage. And they barely make up the belt anyway. So you essentially have empty room in the belt because the incendiary rounds don’t do much damage and you don’t get enough of them to do damage with their current damage output

7.7s are too OP pls up in BR gaijin pweeze

So getting clipped by a Japanese .50 I’m more than likely going to suffer more damage compared to if I clipped a japanese aircraft with my .50s.

So I posited two options:

Buff U.S. incendiary to have an explosive effect. leave the belts be. That way, even though the vast majority of the Universal belt consists of AP of some kind, those few incendiary rounds will actually do decent damage hit.

Or option 2: Leave the effect alone. Give the U.S. an air-targets belt that consists of mostly incendiary.

Late war could be like: I, I, I, API-T, I
Early war could be: T, I, I, I, AP

The strange thing is, the B-239 actually gets an air-targets belt which consists of mostly M1 Incendiary, which. Not the greatest, still does get the job done and shows that gaijin made a precedent for it.

[_Zekken]

@dovah4

Most other country’s machine guns of similar caliber can either kill you quickly or completely cripple you with just a few hits while with U.S. .50s you need to get concentrated bursts on a specific spot lest you do absolutely minimal damage.

*While with US .50s they do exactly the same thing as my videos and many others videos showed.

Im not sure how many different ways I can explain that you dont need to hit a specific spot. Nor am I sure why you are so focused on wing hits when wings are specific spots too

@dovah4

You seem to not understand.

Yes, I definitely dont understand why you are talking in circles and trying to bring up things you claim are disadvantages that have already been explained, or proven with evidence to not be the case.

@dovah4

No? They kinda do

20+ kills of evidence showing they dont.

@dovah4

I can make snapshots all day and obliterate people with 20mm.

You can do the same with brownings, the damage will just be crippled flight controls, fires, or maybe a pilot snipe and less likely a wing snap

@dovah4

50s I can’t snapshot with unless I hit pilots or RNG blesses me and I get a fire.

Skill issue

@dovah4

Japanese .50s I can snapshot with and either outright obliterate or severely cripple them

And they suffer from 20mm like ballistics, much worse range, less guns, and significantly worse rounds in the belt that aren’t that HEF round in return for it. Its the airframe thats creating the success more than the guns.

@dovah4

I’ll slap a bf-109 with some API-T and he’ll just eat it and I have to go for another pass

The only time I have had this happen with brownings is when I miss.

@dovah4

while with japanese .50s I will get just a few hits on him and he’s either missing his wing or he’s so damaged that trying to sustain the fight isn’t worth it and he’s out to try and RTB. Meanwhile I only have to deal with his friend.

And you have to be in a much more advantageous position to do so because Japanese planes are best at getting close and being able to aim. Try Putting 6x Ho-103s on a P-51 and you’ll probably find they perform worse than the Brownings. Heck Id probably perform better with the 4x Brownings on the Ki-44.

@dovah4

That’s what your ground RB videos fail to show

Im not sure what they fail to show? Me missing my shots?

@WolfgangTheSecon

That’s the problem. Per-round is irrelevant, and shouldn’t be what the discussion is centering on,

Exactly. Per round damage is one small piece of the equation. They discount all the other stats and things that M2 brownings are good at that other .50s lack in return for their improved damage.

If you gave M2 brownings an HEF round (like the Ho-103) they’d immediately become the most broken guns in the game because they are so good in so many other categories already.

I genuinely wish I could put the different guns on different airframes. Its hard to judge objectivelty just gun performance when the airframe is doing a significant part of the work, especially for Ho-103s. The Ki-44s are frankly OP at their BR and the aircraft itself is contributing a huge portion to the idea that the guns are over performing. Since it can cover for the guns shortcomings.