The VCC is easily more survivable than the 2S38. I’ll give you the rest, but the 2S38 is literally just an OHKO ammo carousel in the middle and all three crew up front. My most played BR is 10.0 and I one-shot them 99% of the time.
The VCC, on the other hand - has a heavily sloped UFP covering a large portion of its frontal projection, and a turret that will block 30mm APFSDS. From the side - it’ll also survive a front shot where there’s only the driver (and a frontally mounted engine - which also helps absorb 20-30mm autocannon shells from the front), while the 2S38 dies when shot almost anywhere in the side - considering the front of it is 3 crew perfectly lined up while the middle is a massive carousel that will kill it instantly.
The 2S38 even has a bit of ammunition stored in the turret and will die when shot there, as well:
I can’t believe I forgot to mention it when talking about how the unmanned turret is barely an advantage. It’s not just the horrible gun handling that will make it show its hull more often than not - but you CAN kill it through the turret, even. Jesus. No wonder I never found them very scary.
Happened to me maybe once, out of hundreds of times - that the fuel tank absorbed my shell entirely without doing any damage, and I had made a poor shot where my shell went at an angle to the other side of the vehicle, instead of the middle, where it would have hit the carousel and killed it.
Whenever I was using a vehicle with an autocannon - the 2S38 was also destroyed essentially instantly because the fuel tank was gone momentarily.
So, that’s unfounded.
I do agree that IRST is absolutely useful, especially considering the VCC also has proxy. So it is definitely relevant, I would say that you are correct on that.
And lastly, that’s not what a strawman is. He’s not explicitly changing the meaning of your post, he is implying that you’re making out the 2S38 to be a lot better than it actually is, which is true.
And I forgot about this. I don’t understand how anyone can even bring up the crewless turret at this point when it’s already been repeated multiple times that the advantage of the crewless turret has been completely neutered due to the poor design choices of the 2S38.
An example of a crewless turret that actually has merit would be the AGS, or the QN506, or the Vilkas, or the PUMA.
The reason why is because the QN506, Vilkas and PUMA all have built-in systems to save the vehicle in case of ammo explosion. The 2S38 dies instantly regardless. Along with all of the other arguments made surrounding it, such as the gun handling, height of the vehicle, ammunition stored in the turret… I would personally be ashamed to even mention it, yet here you are.
Sure, I would reckon that all 10.0s should go to 13.0 and the Strv 122s should go up to 15.7, along with everything else as well. Makes room for the necessary decompression of 5.7-9.7!
The ‘heavily sloped UFP’ is no where near as ‘heavily sloped’ as the HSTV-L’s UFP. Sure, it can possibly ricochet some APDS, but I have tested on fair number of APFSDS rounds from different nations, and it cannot ricochet any of them (at least practically).
The turret can block 30mm APFSDS, which is impressive for a light tank, although the lower breech area is effectively only ~42mm of armour, so a couple rounds placed in that area would kill the two crew members inside.
Yes, this is true for autocannons, but not really for MBT APFSDS. The sheer number of APFSDS rounds from autocannons can simply overwhelm the weakspots and eventually kill all the crew members too.
Fair enough. Like you said, its turretless design is not as useful as other turretless designs because of its lack of invulnerability due to the ammo belt being hooked up to the rest of the ammunition. Although, this is still better than having crewed turret in most cases.
This is your experience, and I have shared mine. Fair enough.
The post was about the Hitfist, not the 2S38. He brought up the 2S38 and I simply compared the Hitfist with the 2S38, not the other way round.
And with what you’re saying, he’s implying, in this statement, that the 2S38 is that good by mentioning it.
1 - Loosing the ability to scout is a buff to you?
2 - With the Begleitpanzer having the same ready-rack-reload speed its clear now that Otomatic totally off, or the 40mm should have a lower reload speed. That depends from the chosen perspective…
3- What? The autoloader of the leclerc can choose the following type of ammo. In a single-feed-system the next shell is given through the order chosen while loading.
5 - 2S38 and Puma have smart munitions. The smart munition of the PUMA aka AHEAD is absolutely useless cause the system in combination with IRST is not constantly adjusting the fuze.
So what does Gajin do? Implementing the same useless system in the 2s38? Nope, 2s38 gets working HE-VT shells instead.
6 - 2s38 is by far the most versatile vehicle (Spaa) of these light tanks. None of them has IRST and 75° Elevation.
The buff comes from its reduced SP cost. Losing scouting outweighs the gains of having a 70sp spawn cost. People always complain about the ADATS(that one right?) not being classified as an SPAA.
It also gets a far lower spawn cost. I’d say it’s about equal.
Would take the Lvkv9040C’s radar + three times higher RPM with IRST over the 2S38’s higher elevation for anti-air duty. And the 5 spall lined crew that make it impossible to one-shot also make it preferable for ground IMO.
I’m mostly just calling out you saying the “2S38 is by far the most versatile” - it isn’t.
I’m literally grinding Sweden just for that one vehicle, while the 2S38 was not something I’d ever consider buying.
1- 2S38 would keep scouting with a lower spawn cost separate from all tanks.
2- OTOMATIC is not an auto-light, thus comparing it to them is incorrect.
3- Leclerc is single feed, and can hold many different types of rounds. Leclerc and 2S38 share a similar conveyor system.
6- Which is irrelevant since 2S38 is 10.X and not 9.3 where its SPAA capabilities are from.
It shouldn’t be, much in the same way the 2S38 shouldn’t be. Yes it would inadvertently be a buff, but regardless, neither were designed explicitly to destroy tanks, and in game are supposed to or at the very least can serve very well in the SPAAG role.
Officially, according to the GRAU_ 2S38(self-propelled artillery systems)/1K150 indexes, this is a Floating combat vehicle/Anti-aircraft Artillery complex…
I might be tripping here but iirc there was enough of them that some games were running mixed MM. And they hadn’t fiddled with SRAAM (it was better than it is now imo)
And of course, back then, pre adjustment of flares, not everyone around 9.3/9.7 had flares so uh
The 2s38 was even more busted when it was first added, everything from the turret ring and down to the pizza shaped ammorack was empty space, that angled up ammorack? didn’t exist so you just shot empty space and got clapped back by 15 APFSDS shells. I personally suck playing it due to not being able to adapt my playstyle to it but 10.3 seems like a fair BR raise for it
@Mohicko
HSTVL is superior to 2S38 in every way.
To claim 2S38 is anywhere to the capabilities of HSTVL is pure Russian propaganda.
In-fact, the fact you want all non-Russians banned from discussions proves my point.
Your performance in your HSTVL is identical to your IFVs.
Sadly you only play one tech tree, and it’s the one you’re slandering vehicles of.
No it’s not. The Leclerc autoloader can store up to 6 different types of shells. Here’s a diagram of part of the commander’s control panel, look under “CHARGEMENT AUTOMATIQUE”:
6 different buttons for 6 different shells that can be selected to be loaded. Then the “DOUBLEMENT” button is to tell the autoloader to reload the same type of shell again.
This is an asinine thought process for a game where there are hundreds of vehicles. Players are smart enough to understand vehicle performance between various vehicles. There is no fundamental mechanic behind the 2S38, it’s an IFV with a high penetrating APFSDS round (relatively speaking) that is automatic. You can claim someone who is playing Rank III vehicles doesn’t understand but saying people must play specifically the 2S38 to talk about it is inane.
