Yes, I think for 9.3+ (so once supersonic aircraft are common) 8v8 and 12v12 for Sim maps should be standard. Additionally, we need 2 spawn locations per team to break up the “take off go left”
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Sim-sized maps have been standard for the last year and change.
It was only 1 or 2 major updates ago we got Afghan back, which I appreciate cause having sim-sized maps all the time is boring.
Also you need forced random airspawn if you want multiple spawns, like the current air spawn Golan Heights.
Sim maps are absolutely not standard. They’re much, much larger than the standard size. Perhaps sim isn’t the right word, but everyone knows what I’m talking about. Maps like Rocky Canyon, for example.
And there would be no need for airspawns. Just have two airfields per team, one towards the left of the map and one towards the right.
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Right… I’m fairly certain that you noticed yourself that with more modern aircraft, the engagement range also increased and that dogfights generally got smaller.
Large scale WW1 or WW2 style furballs are thing of the past.
But I don’t need to tell you that since you read books and combat reports, right?
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Sim maps are 100x100 - 128x128km in size [in-fact a few are 80x80km, which are the most popular sim EC matches].
All but city and Afghan are 100x100km or more.
@TyphoonCro
Dogfights are rare in war period. Dogfights weren’t the majority of air kills in WW2, it was general engagements.
On top of that, Vietnam had such large scale engagements which is what caused F-15, 16, 18, and now 35 to exist in the forms they do.
The Vietnam conflict is one of the primary reasons the world has the aircraft they have today.
The books I’ve read go all the way to the Gulf War.
No, the world hasn’t seen another Vietnam in a while, it’s still plausible which is why all air forces are trained for high intensity conflicts and why real-life war games feature such simulations as well.
yes, it is.
goes on to talk about real war like we’re fighting a real war and this isn’t a video game meant for fun
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It is fun. I’m experiencing a fragment of the chaos real-life pilots had and have to go through, and that’s exciting.
It’ll never be the real thing, hence a fragment of; I just don’t want WT to turn into Counter Strike, cause that’s what stopped me from playing air RB until ~2018 to begin with.
Air arcade shouldn’t be more realistic than air RB, IMO.
I don’t agree with this. Instead a new gamemode might be a good alternative for people who aren’t interested in the grind but taking this away would make it way more difficult for people trying to get top tier stuff which would be even worse than 16v16 in general for the playerbase.
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It was fun for the first week, now it isn’t fun at all. It is just the exact same furball, and exact same steamroll. The steamrolling makes for an incredibly bad experience since it isn’t the funnest to steamroll every match, and it isn’t fun being in a 1v4+.
It is not, and never will be.
16v16 can exist, as long as it is not the norm. If it was only on the EC sized maps that would be fine. It should never be on the non EC maps.
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You shouldn’t be doing the exact same thing all the way through each match. If you meant the match always starts the same, sure, thats true of every WT game mode except maybe Naval at times and is a different discussion than player numbers.
But the actual engagement should not be the same. Top tier jets are mostly about situational awareness and you should be positioning yourself in such a way that youre a hard missile target while moving to a position relative to the fur ball where your missiles work best. And otherwise early gun solutions are for head ons and true dog fight gun solutions are for after the fur ball has thinned out.
I say all this and I actually would prefer more spread out engagements. I think top tier jets wouls be more fun with random start positions at typical mission altitudes sometimes together and sometimes broken up by squad as if two sets of combat air patrols encountered each other.
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you are just denying everything atp
Please let’s avoid personal attacks against other users and keep it respectful.
ok mb friend
So can we have a Dislike button instead of letting people disrespect topics?
e.g. here I won’t have to repeat why dueling is an actual thing in air battles
bro I got my war thunder draft card in the mail how do I dodge
Imagine objective based battles at top tier
With multiple stages where you can respawn
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Changing the number of players in an ARB at top tier is not going to change anything…good players that DON’T get smoked in the first 3 min of a game will just do all the killing in those small games too!..and in the small games they will do it in faster then 3 min!
The sad thing is we live in the Information Age and 75%-80% (my guess) of player don’t bother to look up YouTube videos on how to get better in top tier air… :/ is what it is.
Also it seems maybe you just don’t like high tier Missile combat in general. I think to many people have this misconception that the cool looking modern jets will be fighting and turning with each other for the gun kill (RARE)…the reality…green dot on screen…highlight dot…push missile button…green dot goes away…ok yeah there is more to it then that but you get it.
ARB could be made much better by making it more then just TDM…there needs to be strategic objectives and targets that actually can give your team an edge in the battle for taking them out!
If you are paying attention to the trusted leaks that are coming out and data mines…it seems Gaijin behind the scenes is working on something like this… large Oil Refinery strategic targets as well as a SEAD mission on the Vietnam map…Anti Radiation Missiles being worked on ext ext
^^ Trusted leak
Some very cool changes I think are on the way for top tier air…just have to wait and see
I disagree. this will only happen in the beginning, once the skill ceiling gets raised and the people with higher skill can finally USE it.
Think back of the old air RB days, 5 years ago. these giant furballs were rare, and pilots actually had to get their own skills in order to be able to do good, not just crank a few lucky kills off in a furball.
if we go from 16v16 sure it will be a rough transition for the premium kiddo’s that bought their way to top tier, but they also need to learn, just like every other player that started war thunder. nobody picked this game up and started top fragging first round.
why is it such a bad thing that skill is needed instead of brainlessly spamming R77’s and amraams.
now, while reducing the size to 8v8 will definitely improve gameplay in my opinion, it isnt the end solution.
its been said countless of times, but air RB EC is the perfect solution.
ive posted this in another thread aswell, but here you go:
AIR RB EC
This means that there probably wont be a giant furball in the middle of the map, as everything is a lot more spread out and over a bigger area (look at the denmark map in SIM for instance) so this will please the people who strongly dislike (and rightfully so) the ‘phonebooth’ fighting that air RB is now, where 120+ spamraams get slung and you cannot dodge them all at the same time.
people can use their planes to the fuller potential; wanna fly an SU27/j11/su30 whatever, turn off your radar and use IRST to be sneaky and not set of enemy RWR’s. NATO planes could also fly to their full potential and their role.
not to mention the possibilities it opens up for strike aircraft. no more racing to a bomb point hoping to not get shot down by the enemy (or a friendly that wants the points really badly) before you drop your bombs. A10’s can actually attack convoys with their A2G ordnance, instead of being basically free RP and SL pinatas for the faster jets (this also goes for tornadoes, phantoms and other strike or ground attack based planes)
this will allow for a more realistic playstyle overall, where you can plan out your route a bit more if you want to, instead of just turning off your brain and following your team, hoping the R77 or amraam isnt pitbulling on you but on your teammate.
sidenote: in my opinion this will help also with people being able to actually climb and use altitude, instead of hugging the ground.
these are some main positives about this mode’s potential, and i genuinely dont get why its not implemented yet at 10.0 and higher.
the main argument against this is server costs, but lets be real guys, theyre selling 4+ premium vehicles every update that people WILL buy (80$ f18 for instance). they have the money to expand the servers lol. anybody who denies this is wilfully ignoring it.
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I do agree with a lot of what you said here…BUT
I think you drastically under estimate peoples willingness to learn…as an example most top tier air players fly low…most don’t even use their radar other then the 20km HMS function…and like I said…they have the tools to learn right there…but the vast majority won’t look. Its why you have such a kill gap in top tier air 4-6 players with most of the kills rest of the team 0.
I think the reality of what modern top tier air battle base line game play is has to be FORCED into the minds of the masses…how you would do that to…as you say “raise the skill ceiling” of the base line player…that’s gonna be a hard one!
I do reject this notion that top tier air is just a point an click adventure…ok well actually it is lol BUT if it was as easy as that makes it sound then everyone would have Bad Karma’s KDR 0_0… -_- yes before you scream Gun Fighting takes way more skill…I agree…but that still does not take away from what I’ve said…a different type of skill!..that apparently most of the player base is lacking in. You start trying to explain radar types. radar gimble of your aircraft, manual radar control and TWS use, fox 1s vs fox 3s, notching, defending IRCCM, optimal missile launch parameters, positioning and situational awareness…it starts looking like this to them
^^ A stat that I wish Skill Shark and your in game stat card would display is Lifespan…most players don’t live past 3 min for a myriad of reasons that they could improve on.
On the whole I do agree an ARB EC game mode would be nice…with the data mine images I posted above as objectives.