- Yes
- No
I would like to suggest the Mittler Waffentäger Panther dünnwandig mit 15 cm s.F.H. 18 L/30 (Sfl.) which was a project started as early as 1942, developed in lots of different forms till 1945, just to be canceled (multiple times), which with the exception of 1x Unique for the latest developed 15 cm version thinn walled, lightened version of Panther hull, specially for the vehicle was build, by a telex message from 6th February 1945, which stated that the chassis without turret that Krupp required for the Schwere Panzerhaubize was waiting at the steel works in Hannover. Thus this makes it a incomplete Prototype from the game perspective. (On the drawing further differences are visible.)
In game this would give a mobile, relatively armored, fully turreteted (open top) 15 cm s.F.H. 18, which would be a fun mobile .50 cal proof derp gun, similar to the Hummel, but better.
History:
The history is quite long, so i summary the beginning and jump to the end, as the inbetween development doesnt really show the end development anyway as it often changed and many different vehicles on the same chassis where cancelled and many different kinds were denied.
In early 1942 the Waffen Prüfamt 4 (which were for field artillery) placed requirements for a designe for a heavy artillery vehicle, which had to use as many Panther parts, which at the time was also new, for the same reasons, the PzH III/IV came to be, to simplefy and streamline production, after all the Hummel was more of a stopgap, untill dedicated medium PzH (Panzer Haubize) were ready (which SPOILER, never came to be).
While for the lighter guns (10,5 cm) the Geschützwagen III/IV was also developed, they also wanted Heavy arty of 12,8 and 15 cm, as these guns were both heavy and difficult to move effectively.
These guns to be mounted included the 12,8 cm K. 43 and 15 cm s.F.H. 43, which also both didnt go into production, instead the K.44 L/55 (and Pak 80 L/55) went into production and the s.F.H. 18 L/30 was just continued.
Requirements were:
- Keep weight down (as such Open top)
- Use as many of the Panther
- Possibly switch over to Panther II parts (at that time the future was still seen in that, tho cancelled in June 1943)
- Carry both the 12,8 cm and 15 cm Gun
- Just like the other Waffenträger have the ability to dismount the gun, use it as Field Gun and have the chassis act as a Ammo carrier.
- Be able to be transported by Rail
- Carry at least 30 rounds of ammo (idealy 60)
These requirements were send to Krupp and Rheinmetall which both took part in the competition.
So the following timeframe from July 1942 and up a multitude of designes were put in for Waffenträger with the 12,8 and 15 cm guns were submitted, with all beeing denied for one reason or the other and the whole development was cancelled on 22th September 1944, as such while ill add some of the drawings in a folder, ill jump acoss this part. In short the 12,8 cm version was denied as a whole and only some interest was shown till 1944 in the 15 cm version, while as sayed above was stopped, except Krupp didnt stop and made the drawing Bz 3445 on October 12th for the Mittlerer Waffenträger s.F.H. 18 auf Panther dünnwandig, which had thinner armor, no hull MG and different fittings for the big open turret, 50 rounds storage and a cylindrical turret, which saved another 7 tons of weight compared to the revious designe. (On the drawing further differences are visible.)
Then in the following in a telex message from 6th Feburary 1945, a chassis without turret ordered by Krupp for the Waffenträger was ready and waiting at steel works in Hannover.
A report from 20th Feb 1945 listed projects to be immediately termineted duo to war situation, which included the 15 cm s.F.H. 18 auf Panther Bauteilen.
As such its story ends there.
And here the final drawing of the produced hull (In this form or possibly another, thats sadly not clear)
The Vehicle:
Mittlerer Waffenträger Panther Dünnwandig
Weight: 36 t
Engine: HL 230 P30 700 Ps / 3000 Rpm (Goverened 600 Ps / 2500 Rpm)
Speed: 46 km/h and up (depending if governed or not)
Crew: 6
Gun: 15 cm s.F.H. 18 L/30 (Sfl.) with 50 rounds
Armor: 30-40 mm (?)
The Gun:
15 cm s.F.H. 18 L/30 (Sfl.)
Elevation: -5° to + 65° Traverse: 360° at 20°/Sec
Ammo: 50 rounds
Overall ammo allready in game and a good bunch of more including rather unique ones.
The ammo is upwards interchangable, that means, that the ammo fired by the s.I.G 33 can be fired by the s.F.H. 13 and 18, the s.F.H. 13 can fire a couple more rounds and then the s.F.H. 18 that can fire a big array or rounds.
First 2 are allready in game, but now with new driving bands (and reduced charge, cince they have thinner walls (Intended German Tank and A. TK. Gun development states that with different driving bands they are fired in the different guns, the I.Gr. 39 is an rebuild I.Gr. 38).).
Ammo:(Click to show)
AP:
Gr.19 Be (Beton) (Saphebc (No Tracer)) 43,5 kg 3,22 kg Ph-Salz und H.10 (4,6046 kg TnTa) 520 m/s 50-100mm/10m
15 / 8,8 cm Pzgr.39 TS (Apcbc-DS) 9,85 kg 0,059 kg H.5 880m/s 193mm/10m
HE:
Gr.19 (He-TF (No Tracer)) 43,5 kg 5,208 kg Amatol and Np.10 (6,67kg) 520m/s
Also Pressed filler of 4,336kg Fp.02. Or also with Bu1d. of 4,05kg Np.30 and Azin.
I.Gr.38 (He (No Tracer)) 38 kg 8,6 kg Amatol and Np.10 (11,01 kg TnTa) 465m/s
15 / 12,8 cm Sprgr.42 TS (HE-TF-DS (No Tracer)) 27,15 kg 3,4 kg Amatol 645 m/s
R.Granate 19 (He-TF Rocket assisted (No Tracer)) 43,9kg 505m/s (Start velocity)
Utility:
Gr.19 Nb. (Smoke (No Tracer)) 39 kg 0,62 kg Np.10 (1,054kg TnTa) 543m/s
Kt. (Canister Shot (No Tracer)) 40 kg Lead or Steel Balls 530m/s
Source:
Special Panzer Variants Hilary Louis Doyle
Panther Variants 1942-1945 Osprey New Vanguard
Panther & Its Variants Walter J Spielberger
Geschossringbuch II
Munition der s.F.H. 18
German Tank and Anti Tank gun development
