15 cm S.F.H. 18 L/30 (Sfl.) auf Geschützwagen G.W. III/IV Hummel

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After longer development on an Panzer III/IV chassis to simplify production and take the best of both, it was discontinued in favor of the Panther. But development didnt go to waste, instead of becoming a main tank, the Pz III/IV chassis was reused to create one of the most well known Geschützwagen, The Hummel, Nashorn and the Grasshüpfer. Today i want to suggest (the allready past for considderation) Hummel, to represent it also here on the new forum as well as show all what they can expect and look forward to.

In early 1943, serving till the very end of the war, it was an open topped casemate SPG on the Pz III/IV hull. Intended to be fast moving artillery support and counter artillery, as well as support for the Panzer divisions and to attack fortifications itself (see gun).
The generall hull is that of the Pz IV, with Pz III parts and the engine moved to the middle, a new mostly angled front plate and great room at the back to carry the 15 cm s.F.H. 18 L/30 (or in case of the Nashorn, the 8,8 cm gun). With over 700 vehicles produced, it was one of the most produced SPHowitzers of the German army. Mostly used on the easter front and western front.

It place would be to be a nice mobile mid tier derp gun, greater than the s.I.G 33 L/12 allready in game, with a couple of new toys to play with as well as having pretty much double the velocity.
It can also be pretty easily implemented, by mostly reusing the Nashorn model.

Pictures:

Spoiler


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Specifications:
Length: 7.17m
Width: 2.97m
Height: 2.81m
Weight: 24 tons
Engine: Maybach HL120 TRM 12-cylinder gasoline engine, 300Ps
Speed: 40 kmh
Crew: 6 (Driver, Gunner, Commander, Loader, Loader, Loader/Machine Gunner, Radio Operator)
Armor: 10-30mm (and more with overlapping parts)
Armament: One 150mm sFH 18/1 L/30 howitzer (18 rounds), one 7.92mm MG34 machine gun (600 rounds)

The Armarment:
The 15 cm s.F.H. 18 L/30 with 18+1 rounds stored, will have a nice array of rounds available.
Overall ammo allready in game and a good bunch of more including rather unique ones.
The ammo is upwards interchangable, that means, that the ammo fired by the s.I.G 33 can be fired by the s.F.H. 13 and 18, the s.F.H. 13 can fire a couple more rounds and then the s.F.H. 18 that can fire a big array or rounds.

First 2 are allready in game, but now with new driving bands (and reduced charge, cince they have thinner walls (Intended German Tank and A. TK. G un development states that with different driving bands they are fired in the different guns, the I.Gr. 39 is an rebuild I.Gr. 38).).

Spoiler

I.Gr. 38: He 38 kg 8,6 kg Amatol with now 465 m/s instead of just 240 m/s and 61 mm penetration. (reduced charge)

I.Gr. 39 HL/A: Heat 24,58 kg 5,32 kg (aquivalent) and 185/160/92mm/all (in game its actually wrong, when fired at lower velocity from the s.I.G. 33 L/12 and s.F.H. 13 L/17 it has 231/200/116mm/all penetration).

Another (for some reason not in game) s.I.G. 33 round:
I.Gr. 38 Nb: Smoke 40,76 kg 532 m/s dont expect anything much except smoke

And new ammo, omitting gameplay wise uninteresting/performance wise identical ones:
Gr. 19 : He 43,5 kg at least 4,05 kg Np.30 (Pent) (mind. = Mindestens = At least) 6,885 kg aquivalent (x1,7) (of course there is also the 5,1 kg TnT one, but this filler is better with 6,885 kg Aquivalent and Azin has incendary and toxic (and Low explosive) function IRL, which dont really have an effect In game.) The 4,05 kg Pent filler with the Azin is the gepreßt 4,3 kg one and the gegossen is the 5,1 kg TnT one. BOTH (or all 3 i guess) are Standard. 520 m/s

Spoiler

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Gr. 19 Be. (Beton): Saphebc 43,5 kg 3,22 kg Ph-Salz und H.10 (4,6046 kg TnT aquivalent x1,43) (or 3,375 x 1,43= 4,83kg Aquivalent G-Salz und H.10, which is actually the same but in another form iirc) 520 m/s and around 100 mm penetration.

Spoiler

Usually stated just TNT but this shows also 2 more were used. Note the different weight as Page 22 mixture doesnt have the wood/bakelite block in the tip. But the 2nd pic has the non explosive tip which would then have the Geschossringbuch Teil 2 stated explosive weight of 3,22 kg. And The Page 24 filling is with the frontal block like other drawings of the round and prefarable for the penetration calculation (as there is slighly less explosive).
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And now the other special rounds:

R.Gr. 19: Rocket He 43,9 kg 505 m/s startvelocity and then rocket supportet
15/8,8 cm Pzgr. 39 Ts: Apcbcds 15/9,85 kg 0,059 kg (like in game) 880 m/s and 194 mm/10 m penetration

Spoiler

Screenshot 2023-08-05 185800

Source:
Munition der s.F.H. 18
German Self-Propelled Artillery Guns of the Second World War Craug Moore
German Artillery in Combat Bob Carruthers
Geschossringband Teil 2
Intended German Tank and A. TK. Gun developent Summary No. 186 02.09.1945 Appendix C to War Office Technical Intelligence
Panzer Tracts No.10 Artillerie Selbstfahrlafetten by Thanks L. Jentz
German self-propelled guns by Gordon Rottman
Ringbuch für Sprengladungen Band II

5 Likes

Just a small correction/addition.
G-Salz has an IRL TNT-eq. of 0.95 - 1.0. So the composition would be weaker than the PH-Salz composition (x1.43 in-game).

Although I’m unsure if gaijin uses the real RE-factor for these things.

Cool suggestion, definetely want to see it. +1

I dont think gaijin uses acurate things, and i thought that the main factor comes from the H.10. There are a couple not 100% correct aquvalents in game, however you need to considder that the pure material isnt what is in the shells, the filler is pressed oder cast which often changes its abilitys for lack of better words.

The Hummel is one of my favorite SPGs of all time, and I’ve wanted it in-game for ages. PLEASE GAIJIN GIVE US THE HUMMEL! +1

1 Like

+1, this artillery piece deserves a br of 4.3 or 4.7. Btw any information on vertical guidiance?

I left it out because there where so many different once, but you should expect the same as Nashorn but with more elevation. So -5° to high up.

I was mainly comparing the PH-Salz to the G-Salz since the H10 is the same in both.
Although I have a hard time finding good data on the PH-Salz and its effectiveness.

Don’t encourage gaijin’s laziness. The game Nashorn is an extremely early example, no? According to Panzer Tracts, an August 1944 Hummel (the peak of Hummel production) would look like this:

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But i find the earlyer smaller drivers hood more beatifull, and they still also exist.

Cool! I was concerned it had like 0 degrees of gun depression. Now I am even more hyped for this vehicle!

The hull is similar (if not the same) with the Nashorn, so it should be a nice addition to a lower BRs with a 150mm donk gun.

2 Likes

It’s about time we get some “high” velocity 150mm HE cannon for Germany :D

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You should do a suggestion for its relative as well:

2 Likes

So basically this is a Hummel but with Wespe gun

Could make for a good 2.3 br spg, just overall better than the SU-76m.

MG 34:

Winterketten:

3 Likes

But that picture of Ostketten are Winterketten.
Winterketten have the little extentions on the end, while the Ostketten are wider, by the track pin supported and with each other connected tracks.

Fixed even though the book where I took that pic from states ostketten

Why the heck Hummel is still not in German tech tree is beyond me

1 Like

Hummel actually passed to the consideration on the old forums 4 yrs ago

https://old-forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/451724-sdkfz-165-hummel/page/3/

And was spotted on one of war thunder videos

https://www.reddit.com/r/Warthunder/s/KKyuPpB4fB

And it’s already modeled in game in air-maps as a target

Not adding it is beyond comprehension

7 Likes