12.0-13.0 requires comprehensive decompression and separation

12.0 - 13.0 bracket represents a unique time period when Gen3 peaked and Gen4 was introduced but before ARH (Fox3) became the primary long range weaponry. The Golden Era of SARH (Fox1) with its’ nuance and slower pace in BVR battles.

Unfortunately right now the bracket is nearly unplayable because of three problems.

Problem #1: ARH (Fox3) spam ruins the entire bracket. Fox3 dominates everything underneath them leading to inflated K/D numbers at the expense of lower BR’s. Most notable victims are:

  • Most 12.0 and select 12.3 who have to face 13.0 Fox3 slingers who presumably have the same FM’s but the power discrepancy between Fox1/2 and Fox3 is too much to overcome.
  • Most 12.7 and 13.0 without Fox3 who can’t compete with the 13.7 who are better in every way possible.
  • Premium Hornets who all underperform massively despite agile FM, better radar and missiles than other early “F-Teens”. This is especially sad given that people paid real money to essentially become fodder to those who have purchased a different package - Su-30MK2/MKK or JA37DI F21.

Solution: comprehensive +0.3 BR decompression from the top. DO NOT re-compress any further on the bottom: even a single 0.3 BR step can lead to drastic changes in perfomance as seen in F/A-18 at 12.3 and recent changes to the F-15A/J/Baz.

Problem #2: in-game the R-27ER is leagues ahead of any other Fox1 missile. Most notably this is part of the reason of why F-15A/J/Baz and F-2A ADTW felt underperforming - they just can’t compete with the R-72ER that gets to them faster, has better tracking and turning.

Solution: Seprate MiG-29 and Su-27 into Early and Late models with a 0.3 BR gap. Both versions retain R-73 but have different access to the R-27ER/ET. Move R-27ER capable planes +0.3 BR above planes like F-15A/J/Baz and F-2A ADTW.

Problem #3: premium spam creates a Black Hole effect where they affect each other. Premium Hornets are being sucked into the Su-30MK2/MKK games where they pose little to no opposition as evidenced by the stats:

image

VS

Paying customers are literally being cannibalized by other paying customers. This should be a big no-no.

This problem will continue to worsen as more strong Fox3 carrying premiums (such as hypothetical F-15C for US) are going to be added into the game. In turn, Hornets can not be lowered in BR even by 0.3 BR because both F/A-18 at 12.3 clearly overperform.

Solution: same as Problem #1 - comprehensive decompression that separates the premiums further. I would argue that the “premium spam” part is also a blessing in disguise - there’re enough wallet warriors to populate respective games when BR’s like 12.7 and 13.3 are separated. To avoid total collapse I’d argue to leave those two within the maxium matchmaking range value - 12.7 vs 13.7

How would it all look:

!NOTE: This suggestion assumes inevitable decompression of at least +0.3 across the board including the planes not mentioned here that are already higher in BR.

  • MiG-29 (9-12): R-27R/T + R-73 at 12.7 ← was adopted earleir than Su-27 and 27ER’s
  • MiG-29 (9-13): R-27ER/ET + R-73 at 13.0
  • MiG-29 (9-12A): R-27R/T + R-73 at 12.7 ← German and Italian tech trees
  • MiG-29 Sniper: R-27ER/ET + R-73 at 13.0 ← it needs love
  • Su-27 (Early): R-27R/T + R-73 at 13.0 ← dubious separation but would fit gameplay-wise
  • Su-27 (Late): R-27ER/ET + R-73 at 13.3
  • J-11: to the 13.3 together with its progenitor
  • F-15A/J/Baz: back to the 13.0 - one step below the Su-27(Late) who has TWS and R-27ER’s

All Gen4 at 13.7 and above +0.3. Most notable abusers are:

  • J-11B: to the 14.0 - massively overperforms (1.42 K/D and keeps rising)
  • Su-27SM: to the 14.0 - overperforms (1.25 K/D and keeps rising)
  • F-15J(M): to the 14.0 - massively overperforms (1.71 K/D and keeps rising)

Problematic Gen4 at lower BR’s:

  • F-14A IRIAF: to the 13.3 - massively overperforms (1.53 K/D and keeps rising)
  • J-11A: to the 13.7 - massively overperforms (1.54 K/D)
  • Su-30MK2/MKK: to the 13.7 - one step below Su-27SM and J-11B who are better in several ways
  • All 14.0 Hornets underperform and should probably stay at 14.0 during the decompression

Gen3 Fox3 slingers from 13.0 to 13.3:

  • JA37DI/F21: overperforms (1.22 K/D)
  • Kfir C.10: massively overperforms (1.47 K/D)
  • F-4F KWS: would overperform if not for the german mains (I’m serious - just look up the EF-2000 perfomance discrepancy between German and Italian/British versions)

Gen3 Fox3 sliingers left at 13.0:

  • AV-8B Plus/FA 2: inadequate FM, low perfomance
  • F-5TH TCU: overperforming but small playerbase, has inadequate FM and carries only 2 Fox3
  • J-8F: overperforming but carries only 2 Fox3

Note: The main separating factor betwen Gen3 Fox3 slingers is their FM’s ability to make use of Fox3 and in turn defend against Fox3, that’s why Harriers and F-5 are left at 13.0 while Kfir, Phantom and Viggen are proposed to be moved to 13.3

With these changes we:

  • Give breathing room for 12.7 and 13.0. Mostly Hornets but Jets like F-15A and F-2A ADTW would also benefit greatly.
  • Separate most Fox3 slingers who overperform from the 12.0 who can’t compete against them.
  • Recreate the Fox1 meta at the 12.0 - 13.0 bracket with iconic late Cold War era Jets such as F-14, F-15A, Su-27, MiG-29 and allow it to evolve given all the gameplay changes in the past years without them being hammered into the ground by Jets from 2000’s.

If I’ve missed some other victims or abusers please let me know.

16 Likes

su30mkk need to be 13.7 for sure.

but mk2 not so sure about it tbh

While the Chinese version does have advantages in the form of better missile variety, I would argue that there’s currently not enough space to put a distinction between MK2 and MKK.

There’s already Su-27SM and F-15C/J(M) to worry about who in turn are outclassed by Euro-Canards and PESA/AESA versions.

Maybe next time?

not so sure about it tbh. because you will go against fox 3 in a fox 1 plane.

yeah a lot of people says its bad with its rwr.

exactly like the f18 peoblem. great at everything but super bad at speed and bad at slow speed

gonna be honest. you cant decompress 13.0 to 14.0 if you dont do it for 14.3 and 14.7.

because at the end you will have plane that will be bad to go against other better plane.

exemple is the su27sm at 14.0 going against a 14.7.
radar itself is bad already, and its not even aesa. plus you need to control ot manualy to tws.

even with r77-1 i dont even think it will perform better.

Yeah, I have adressed this in the OP:

Bro, JA 37 DI is worse premium than F / A 18.
Even A 4 early skyhawk has better RWR than late viggen.
JA 37 DI / F21 has worst RWR on that tier. Secondly it has only four AIM 120 A:s. secondly it radar is not very good.

SU 33 gets 8 SAHR- IOG - DL whit better radar and RWR. ( they are on same BR )

That’s you:

That’s average:

image

You’re underperforming massively. I don’t think you’re qualified to give a relevant opinion, “bro”.

But I will entertain your argument for the sake of argument. Here are JA37 DI and Hornets when sorted by RP per game:

He is literally inbetween them in terms of grind power with better SL per Game and much better K/D which means less frustration and more satisfaction.

3 Likes

So i am not qualified because i have not used my premium viggen for four months ?
I dont use because how bad the RWR is, thats why now i play GRB mid tier or in ARB where there is no missille spam.

I’ve seen enough, move Su-30MKK to 12.0

1 Like

surprised the 15jm is so damn good in terms of k/d.
Would’ve never thought it would perform better than the su-27sm these days

No, your assesment of viggen capability is simply questioned since you performance with vigen is below average.

2 Likes

I dont need good K/D ratio to tell Viggens RWR is worst on that BR, everyone who has used it know how bad it is
BC it is only directional ( 8 directions) also it has whit massive blindspots.

Gaijin plz ad the U 95 electrical warfare / RWR pod, it is already in the files and it would solve viggens RWR problem

True.

However

This entirely hinges on you knowing how to use said plane (or fight agaist it for that matter).

With Vigens average stats being so high, its clear that people who can make premium vigen work outnumber those who cant.

2 Likes

No idea why J11 and su27 go to 13.3, but f-15c/f16c remain on 13.7. J-8F should go to 13.3, the missile quality should be consider.

Already is on the DEV server, not sure it deserves a higher BR than the USA one though, It’s missiles are a little better and it’s slightly lighter, is there any other differences (other than the obvious one) that I don’t know about that would make it better?
Edit: seems it was either reverted or my game was bugged and showing it’s AAB rating in ARB

Couldn’t the F16C go down to 13.3? It already has abysmal stats on statshark and a max of 6 missiles doesn’t help it.

Currently ie. not taking into account the proposed decompression, F-16C is fine, FM hard carries it.

Moreso current 13.7 is peak matchmaker. Now that the SL lootboxes are done I cant wait to get the F-15C MSIP, its gonna be fun.

The F16C does not pull, which is crucial in the Fox3 jousting meta atp., you need to be able to get the nose on target at high speeds, the F16 just doesn’t do that.

The 13.7 F-16C block 50 in the US TT.

Does not pull.

Aight lol.

1 Like