Very convincing argument. Just ignore it being supersonic I guess. That’s like saying that the R27ER/T is no different from what we’ve had for years
Laughs in Pantsir cause you know you can shoot those slow missiles with your superior radar+missile gun combo.
Those AGM’s cant even get close to Kh38MT’s level.
My other posts in this thread have made my stance on the KH 38 pretty clear. But is that the fault of the Pantsir? Should it go up solely because the same nation has better AGMs over other nations? That’s a ridiculous argument. The trick is that you fire another missile afterwards. And then another. You’ll be able to bleed the Pantsir of missiles and rearm long before the Pantsir is able to do the same on most maps. If Gajiin was actually willing to raise the max ground br for all tanks and decompress, I’d be fine with the Pantsir going up. But we know that’s just a pipedream since they fight tooth and nail to prevent that from happening. (Decompression bad because uhhh… que times. Yeah, definitely that)
The effective range of all SPAA against jet CAS is 12km.
The effective range of all ten tech trees’ CAS loadouts is 20km+.
So until there’s a SPAA that can consistently hit supersonic targets out to 20km, then the KH-38 is more of the same OP nonsense.
Soviets need a better SPAA just as much as the other 9 tech trees.
İts Gaijin’s fault.
Pantsir shouldnt be added so early, right now combining with Ka-52,Pantsir and Su25SM3 Russia basically owns the skies.
And i can just fire my Kh-38 missiles outside of any Nato Spaa range, even if they do the same tactic i can just go back to rearm and do the same thing again.
Difference between Nato Spaa’s and Pantsir is that you never know when Pantsir is targeting you and most munitions requires you to get in Pantsir’s range.
Not to mention Pantsir can always use cover in order to protect itself from those munitions.
İncreasing Pantsir’s br will not remove its advantages against air vehicles.
Pantsir is the main problem.
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yes it is! you can fly a jet and on takeoff a team mate can intentionally ram you in an su25 then carry on flying no problem whilst you crash into the ground and get a crew lock!
What’s not to love!
Guarantee that guy got killed in first engagement also.
Top tier is full of the shittest players, sweaty players and utter shitbags.
pain
top 10 reasons pantsir should’ve never been added
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especially not fun in air rb when you takeoff and a friendly intentionally rams you in an su-25, makes you crash but carries on like it never happened and you get a crewlock.
All while flying a hunter at 9.7 with 10.7 jets.
Gotta love the mentality of high tier players who think they are elite because they have 1 or 2 high tier premiums, nothing else.
Well… PGMs you can just shoot down… So…
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+1
It doesn’t even stop CAS from being OP.
All 10 tech trees need SPAA stronger than ITO-90M and Pantsir.
problem
all 10 tech trees barring two very noteable exceptions have nothing stronger than pantsir, which by itself is already stronger than ito-90m, because unlike the eastern bloc the western nations don’t do shorad very much (at all)
off the top of my head the strongest american aa suggestion for top tier was a captured pantsir
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Israel, China, Soviets, Japan at the least have superior to Pantsir options.
I’d need to re-research the rest though.
2 options for Britain are the Supacat HVM that fires ASRAAM or the Sky Sabre (though I think that needs a seperate radar vehicle)
But yeah, until Ukraine, most western nations did not see the need for “SPAA” anymore, so they are now developing systems (like the Supacat HVM)
11.7 was fun?
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So, the trick to dodging Pantsirs is to take advantage of the fact that every player-guided SACLOS missile right now just sucks. Go sideways to them, make large turns, maybe even just change your direction altogether. You can do this at any altitude. Anytime they have to react to what you’re doing and change direction, their missile loses a LOT of speed and becomes harder to control.
If I can do it in the F-16AJ, you should too.
100% agreed there. The writing has been on the wall for some time that SPAA wouldn’t be able to keep up with aircraft armament, and we’re now really hitting that spot with the Su25SM3 and its 20km laser guided/FnF AGMs.
People need to accept that they’re gonna NEED a fighter to shoot down CAS aircraft.
As for how to start winning, my only real recommendation that you can actually do is to squad up with someone playing russia. The players might not be better, but you certainly avoid the biggest offenders.
Realistically, there’s not much you can do that will turn a game around when there’s 31 other players in the match.
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As someone that has top tier ground and air for both Japan and Sweden, I can pretty confidently say that dealing with the pantsir is no different from coping with something like a ItO 90 or FlaRakRad.
Yes, the lack of rwr ping is a strength in its favor, but it doesn’t matter when they can’t touch you to begin with. Theres a reason people stopped complaining about the pantsir about a update after it came out. They figured out how to counter it (just like how people complained about the F14 for a update then suddenly stopped when they figured out hugging the ground is a thing.) People just sit outside of render distance above the battlefield with guided bombs or AGMs, people have been doing it since before the F14 even came out. Or you just do some basic manuvers like PercussionCap said.
And with the KA 50/52, they have the same strengths of literally any other helicopter in that it’s a menace if left unattended. I suppose we should be complaining about the heli with fire and forget spike missiles then by that mentality (I think it’s the italian one? Could be wrong). The strength of the KA 50/52 is in downtiers where spaa don’t have very fast missiles, not in uptiers where every top tier spaa can touch it pretty easily.
The best solution I’ve seen suggested is multiple piece AA like the patriot system, S200-400, etc. being in the back of the map behind the battlefield and you pay sp to take control of one. But even that has its problems since you know people will camp that spawn waiting for someone to pop in and instakill them.
“Just remove pantsir” isn’t gonna happen. People can talk about it until the cows come home but it still won’t happen. Just like how they aren’t gonna get rid of the KH 38 or literally any other powerful vehicle/mechanic. So instead lets try looking for something thats an effective counter than can be added to game.
If you wanna get technical, the Gripen is the one that owns the skies by a wide margin, it just takes some basic strategy to use Mavericks/GBUs which is beyond the mental capacity of most players in game. As braindead as Alvis seems to be sometimes, he’s correct on how you use mavericks and PGMs. The KH 38 simply lowered the skill ceiling and made that “untouchable” playstyle accessible to everyone with 1 finger and a somewhat functional frontal lobe by chopping away the strategy of dancing at the edge of spaa range or sitting above the battlefield
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As someone who has almost every nations top tier vehicles this is just a straight lie.
Nobody stopped complaining about Pantsir, just because you ignore it doesnt mean its not there.
Oh you mean the Spike missiles that flies slower then turtle and makes inconsistent damage? İ have both Ka-52 and French Tiger Block 2(which also does have Spike missiles ) and i would prefer Ka-52’s armament every single time.
Dont make assumptions on something you didnt experienced in the first place.
Best solution is to introduce HARM missiles and adding similiar Sam systems to the Nato Side.
Never said anything like that, you should stop making assumptions.
İn terms of flight performance yes, in terms of guided munitions no.
Mavericks on JAS39A are only A models which doesnt even lock onto target after 3km’s, it will basically lock onto ground and any position change will make them useless.
Gbu’s on other hand are limited by release speed, doesnt track the lasing until it gets in 6km range and guiding them requires constant lasing which makes you exposed against Pantsir.
You still refusing to understand.
Unlike PGM’s or Mavericks KH-38MT’s can loft which basically makes them disappear on your radar and flies much faster then both system which gives enemy Spaa’s less reaction time.
Mavericks and PGM’s on other hand basically flies at subsonic speeds and you can easily spot them on your radar and shoot them down not to mention KH-38’s can be fired outside from any Nato Spaa’s range while you cant do the same thing when you’re using Mavericks or PGM’s.
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Being the only person defending NATO against multiple people is hard, wish I had backup.
Had to repost that cause the false-flagging Russian group is online pocket watching me.