Yak 3U Overpower!

[Real_K_Soze]

@Stephan-0508

I’m currently testing this with a Bf 109 G-10.

I am not sure if you get happy with that plane.

Based on my preferences (i don’t like Spits due to their FM with stick settings) just 2 planes i flew are able to kill a Yak-9U reliably: The A7M2 and the P-59A.

1. Whilst the A7M2 has no issues to out-turn a Yak-3U (Air RB with Hotas and without instructor) you need to set up your fights properly to ensure that they can’t run away.
2. The P-59A turns also better but has a severe top (low alt) and rip speed advantage and their massive speed drop after tight turns helps a lot to avoid overshooting. I achieved the best results merging at low alt but with very high speed - avoiding/dodging the head-on and your initial turn plants you at their six (all crews with maxed pilot skill & expert qualification).

I stopped playing both as the A7M2 is way too easy to use and in the P-59 i need a hell of brain power in order to stay alive and to focus on them as main threat - whilst the armament is not really supporting “one pass” kills…

The main issue is always the time you need to kill them - like vs any Yak - so you have to wait (or create) an undisturbed 1 vs 1 in order to avoid getting 3rd partied - but on the other hand you need to kill them whatever it takes as you can’t win as long as they are alive…

[BACKRAGE44428-live]

LF mk9 has more speed bleed but i do believe it can pull harder due to being a spitfire so its trade depends on your play style which is better

[Stephan-0508]

That was well written.

As for the G-10, I’m still not entirely sure whether I’ll be happy with it or not. When you go from a K4 back to a G-10, the difference in performance is immediately noticeable.
However, you also notice small differences that I personally appreciate. For example, in dives, the G-10 doesn’t drop quite as quickly, and speed is easy to manage. The extra power seems to be available continuously, and the engine overheats the slowest of all the Bf 109s. Last but not least, there’s the lighter weight, which makes it feel more agile, even though it’s still one of the heaviest 109s.
But as I said, I don’t yet know whether the advantages or disadvantages will outweigh each other in the long run. Maybe I’m just not good enough.

But ultimately, this doesn’t really help us with the Yak. I don’t even think that a higher BR would really be the right solution. What would be more crucial is a revision of the flight model, and we all know that will never happen.

[Real_K_Soze]

@Stephan-0508

But ultimately, this doesn’t really help us with the Yak. I don’t even think that a higher BR would really be the right solution. What would be more crucial is a revision of the flight model, and we all know that will never happen.

This is imho leading to the right direction - a lot of planes have a busted flight model whilst others are severely hampered by instructor limitations. If you dig deep enough you find a lot of examples that mainly mouse aim players (imho 99% of Air RB pilots) of certain nations have to deal with that.

So whilst i agree that gaijin won’t nerf USSR flight models it would be great if they would consider a de-nerf of their opponents.

Example:

My Swiss C-3604 (flown with a Hotas, SFC and disabled instructor) kills any Yak in the BR range and can dogfight and win vs Spitfires (and the even better turning Hurricanes) whilst i have severe issues with the JP Bf 109 -7 or the also broken MB 157. 😂

There is a reason why 1 vs 1 duel specialists use FR controls in their tournaments.

[lynx15]

@Stephan-0508

the engine overheats the slowest of all the Bf 109s

from my experience you can just use MEC 40% radiators (all of them) in later 109s (everyting higher than the G-2) and use WEP continuously the only problem is youll burn through your fuel very fast when using WEP

[Loofah]

I’m not entirely convinced. I remember G6 doing OK with 40% rads on colder maps and overheating (although much slower) at moderate and hot maps even with 60-80% rads. Will have to test it again.

On test map (I think it’s moderate?) it goes into yellow with 100% rads at 330IAS, but at higher speed it’s OK.
But yellow means a few minutes later you’ll be in the orange.

40% will get you overheating pretty badly.

[RunaDacino]

@Loofah

I’m not entirely convinced. I remember G6 doing OK with 40% rads on colder maps and overheating (although much slower) at moderate and hot maps even with 60-80% rads. Will have to test it again.

Dunno if there’s opportunities in ARB for such, but I’ve found running my engine at ~85% throttle (or rather: whatever throttle gives me 1.15 ATA on my instruments) in all my 109s (F, G, K) when not in immediate danger has given me some pretty significant margins before the engine kills itself from over-heating in actual emergencies. I’ll grant that this is viable and possible in ASB where you get to pick your engagements and have time to let your engine relax but might be useless for ARB. It even lets me WEP for combat with the F-4 (alongside ~65% or 75% rads which I toggle on when I start turning).

I mostly started doing it after seeing the engine management cheat sheets for Il2:GB for continuous vs combat power (30 minute max) out of curiousity if I can avoid my engine temps turning yellow after 20 minutes of flying (it indeed stops my engine temps turning yellow after ~20 minutes of flying).

Basically, 100% throttle for take off and climb to 3 km altitude, throttle down to 85% (or even 60%) when flying to objective or patrolling above objective once at my target altitude. 100% if I see unknown plane or confirmed hostile. WEP if emergency (say: a dogfight).

For non 109s, the equivalent is running 85 or 92% prop pitch (or specific RPM if I know them like 2700 for P-51C) and slamming to 100% in a pinch.

[_Suntan]

and lf9 is also undertiered

[Loofah]

I mean, I just adjust prop pitch constantly when not in combat, although this doesn’t work for some planes. F.e. in Do-335 B2 you may be down 25% of power and still be overheating.
But this is non-viable for actual combat and I guess one doesn’t play sim to cheese it :D

[lynx15]

@Loofah

40% will get you overheating pretty badly

i remember even the G-6 doing fine with it
(ill test it ig)

[lynx15]

@Loofah

40% will get you overheating pretty badly.

i checked for the K-4 and G-6 (i dont own the G-10 and i will not touch the G-14)
both are doing fine with 40% (even on hot maps i think)

but there is still the problem that wep just burns trough your fuel like twice as fast as 100%

[Loofah]

Well, that’s only KINDA true:

Yellow means you will get into orange in a few minutes.
if you stick to 380+ IAS, it takes a bit to reach yellow, indeed, but it happens.
Then once you hit yellow, even at 500 IAS you are back to yellow almost immediately.

And the temperature steadily increases.

40% is too little on moderate map for K4.

Now I’m testing G6 with airfield start, then climb at pretty fast 325-330IAS…

Yellow oil and water happen VERY quickly (water like 10s after oil)

G6 loses power past 4,1km, so if one stays there, it will probably settle down to reasonable temp, so there’s that. Still in the yellow, though.

[Snilot]

Just a rare, unbiased opinion. My handshake. Like you, I don’t understand people, who say “Yak-3 is OP”. Seems like all the whine 'bout “OP Yak-3s” is made by people who don’t understand air combat strategy and tactics.

Maybe they just fly to the “meet point” and dogfight then in chaotic style? It such a ‘mode’ it will be almost ANY aircraft that has balanced specs (climb/acceleration/turn/energy saving) that will annoy them.
Yaks are just quite popular, so they see that they’re often killed by Yaks… And instead of learning combat tactics and their plane’s advantages, choosing to complain about Yak-3s OPness…

Fully agree that P-51C-10 has its strong sides (600 kph+ in horizontal near the ground, perfect energy saving in flat climb/dive, etc) and not-too-bad turn time to attack Yaks when you have right position in a combat. And it has BR 3.7 (!) So Why “Yak-3s are OP” whiners aren’t whining “P-51C is OP”?

As you said, P-47D-28 is good against Yak-3s (and NOT only against em alone) too. Not to mention that D-28 is just a physics-law-breaker with its fantastic (for P47D) climb and turn speed. No Bf.109G-6 pilot can duel with D-28 in good hands in a turnfight. Rare G-2 pilot can… And, with its absolute high-alt advantage over Yak-3s (and almost all other Soviet planes), 840+ kph dive speed (against Yak-3’s 680), plus its “laser” M20 bullets… It’s just a killing-machine if you use it properly. And yes, it was VERY good @ 5.0 but Gaijins LOWERED its BR to 4.7.

So, I could say the same 'bout some Japan machines (A7M2, J2M2). Britts (Typhoon Mk. Ib), and so on.

And yes, 3U is much better than 3. It performs as well @ its BR, as P51C-10 or D-28 at theirs.
It is one of the most pleasant Soviet machines to play. But it meets Spit LF mk. IXs, Bf.109K-4s, P-51H’s (as you said) and jets… So isn’t an OP really, more just a good machine, if you know how to use it properly… But La-7 is like so!! NOT-a bad-thing that bangs out 5 enemies vs you alone, if you know what to do.

So, it seems like it’s the Pilot who rules?.. Thinking instead of [you_know_that_word]?

[Loofah]

Yak-3 beats P-51 in climb, turn, instantenous turn, energy retention, acceleration and firepower.
P-51 is faster in straight line and has higher rip speed.
Yak-3 has A LOT more to work with.

[lynx15]

@Snilot

Seems like all the whine 'bout “OP Yak-3s” is made by people who don’t understand air combat strategy and tactics.

it outclimbs nearly everything on its br (talking about the normal yak3s but i think this also goes for the 3u and vk)
at least on the alts you will meet it
the main problem is here that there is no way in the world you will get up high enough for the yak to lose a fair fight against you

its not that slow in a straight line (this i think only goes for the normal one)

has great guns with near .50cal ballistics while also doing as much dmg as 30mms

it beats everything it meets in a dogfight (unless its japanese and even then i has a chance)

the only downside is its ripspeed

@Snilot

So Why “Yak-3s are OP” whiners aren’t whining “P-51C is OP”?

uhmmm at least some do?

@Snilot

Bf.109K-4s

one of the most underwhelming 5.7s in game

@Snilot

and jets

• if thats true all 5.7s do
• thats the point of an uptier

[iegaatdao]

@Snilot

Maybe they just fly to the “meet point” and dogfight then in chaotic style? It such a ‘mode’ it will be almost ANY aircraft that has balanced specs (climb/acceleration/turn/energy saving) that will annoy them.

Your team dies, you are left alone vs a horde a yaks

@Snilot

not-too-bad turn time to attack Yaks when you have right position in a combat. And it has BR 3.7 (!)

Will you be in said positions? that’s the tricky part

@Snilot

not-too-bad turn time to attack Yaks

It can pull a lot of AOA, but it will bleed speed and end in death if it keeps up.
P-51s need altitude to bleed into speed if you want to turn with them.

@Snilot

Not to mention that D-28 is just a physics-law-breaker with its fantastic (for P47D) climb and turn speed

Yes bro, P-47 D-28 was specially made to improve climbrate + it’s not turn speed, it’s AOA and P-47s bleed a lot more. let’s talk about the 4.3 opponents of the yak-3

@Snilot

high-alt advantage over Yak-3s

It will never come into play, yak family reaches altitude first and energy is energy, even still, stickin to altitude invites to complete team loss and ticket bleed due to AI units

@Snilot

Rare G-2 pilot can

I wonder why they are rare… Do-335 at same BR… Vs hordes of yak-3s, while basically bein a bf-109 F-4 at 4.3 instead of 4.0, same case with yak-3 if you think, I-185 is at 4.3 and it is respectable machine, but yak-3 at 4.3 so why fly it?

@Snilot

840+ kph dive speed (against Yak-3’s 680),

There’s only so much altitude you can bleed…
And you will end in Low altitude, y’know, the place where the yak is actually supposed to be a monster at?

@Snilot

plus its “laser” M20 bullets… It’s just a killing-machine if you use it properly.

Same with Shvak cannons, because yak players love to admire it’s firepower, but always forget them to list them as an upside, also 12.7mil berenzin is literally the same with less ammo and better rounds.

@Snilot

And yes, it was VERY good @ 5.0 but Gaijins LOWERED its BR to 4.7.

True.

@Snilot

So, I could say the same 'bout some Japan machines (A7M2, J2M2). Britts (Typhoon Mk. Ib), and so on.

1st, not that hard to kill
2nd, first variant could be 5.3
3rd, just roll, Typhoon can barely complete a barrel roll in 20 seconds

@Snilot

It is one of the most pleasant Soviet machines to play. But it meets Spit LF mk. IXs, Bf.109K-4s, P-51H’s (as you said) and jets…

Spit LF mk.IXs: undertiered and only in 5.7 because it keeps the Yak-3U at bay
Bf-109K-4s: it’s stuck in 5.7 bein ass because in full downtiers it decimates 7 billion people per match
P-51H’s: undertiered + yak-3u should be 2 BR steps below it (6.0).
…and jets: you mean the actual early jets that literally scrape the barrel? 21s, random bum ass strike jets and the 162? jets are literally always 1 bad 60 degree turn from being eaten alive by props that they barely beat in speed by 100km/h (same difference that A7M2s work with btw), and they climb very slowly compared to other props, specially yak-3u.

[lynx15]

@iegaatdao

while basically bein a bf-109 F-4 at 4.3 instead of 4.0

wrong
its just worse than the f4 at any alt that matters

[Real_K_Soze]

@Snilot

Fully agree that P-51C-10 has its strong sides (600 kph+ in horizontal near the ground, perfect energy saving in flat climb/dive, etc) and not-too-bad turn time to attack Yaks when you have right position in a combat. And it has BR 3.7 (!) So Why “Yak-3s are OP” whiners aren’t whining “P-51C is OP”?

You can’t compare the very good P-51 C-10 with a Yak-3 - the main difference is the way better acceleration and energy generation of a 4.0/4.3 Yak-3. I kill both of them rather easy in my B7A2 or 3.3 Hellcat either by diving with air brake (B7A2) or drop behind them with throttle dropping (Hellcat).

The issue with the Yak-3 is that you have to be 100% focused - as real good opponents can escape with a mix of rolling and upward spirals. A P-51 C-10 is losing way more energy during such maneuvers and can’t escape.

@Snilot

As you said, P-47D-28 is good against Yak-3s (and NOT only against em alone) too. Not to mention that D-28 is just a physics-law-breaker with its fantastic (for P47D) climb and turn speed.

No idea what or how you play, but gaijin nerfed the P-47s significantly about half a year ago - i basically stopped playing them as the forced flap auto-retraction above around 300 kmph makes it way harder to benefit from energy traps or even to dogfight at higher speeds.

With a Hotas i had no issues to beat a plain La-7 even in the fat bitch CHN F-47 N - but gaijin changed also the FM and the planes (Thunderbolt Mk I, US- D22/23, IT & CHN D-30 & mentioned F-47 N) fly way heavier & sluggish than before.

@Snilot

And yes, 3U is much better than 3. It performs as well @ its BR, as P51C-10 or D-28 at theirs.
It is one of the most pleasant Soviet machines to play. But it meets Spit LF mk. IXs, Bf.109K-4s, P-51H’s (as you said) and jets… So isn’t an OP really, more just a good machine, if you know how to use it properly

Not sure if you are just trolling or if you actually believe what you wrote - but there is a large performance gap between Yak-3Us and the average 5.7 opponent.

You can beat all of them - the question is simply at what altitude you meet them and if you are able to kill a Yak-3U fast enough before you lost your initial energy advantage - in other words the plane allows way too easy kill AND that rather mediocre players get away with basic mistakes below 3 km…

[Real_K_Soze]

@lynx15

it beats everything it meets in a dogfight (unless its japanese and even then i has a chance)

You might deactivate your instructor - without the artificial AoA limitations even a plain 3.3 Hellcat has a tighter turn. The challenge is to catch them in a lower energy state and to avoid vertical maneuvers as otherwise the Yak-3 benefits from way better PtW and can out-energy you in a prolonged fight.

And i would claim that even a 3.7 Spit outturns any Yak-3 rather easy…

[lynx15]

@Real K Soze@live

You might deactivate your instructor - without instructor the artificial AoA limitations even a plain 3.3 Hellcat has a tighter turn.

ik but my aim is bad enough without Real controls activated
still ty

@Real K Soze@live

And i would claim that even a 3.7 Spit outturns any Yak-3 rather easy

if the fight prolongs for more than 2 turns the yak will win but yea a spit can win
(tbh i didnt mean it in that way but yea it was a bad try to say that youll even have a chance against some turnfighters in the yak3)