I absolutely love this thing.
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Probably because you are sitting back and sniping
He doesn’t know LMAO
Yeah I’ll stop this here, your opinion is irrelevant if you don’t even know what I’m talking about.
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I get gun kills with the Ratel 20 i can garantee you i would exceed with the XM800T HVAP. there’s a lot more vehicles that high up with cheese for armour.
Also the CLOVIS uses the same HVAP for its coaxial MG ammo and that thing shreds the hell out of anything I have no clue why you think this is bad
Brit main here, I can somewhat explain this.
Spalling on APDS is very inconsistent on British tanks until you get to the chieftain (excluding the RARDEN 30mm gunned vehicles) and it does screw British players over often and trips newer players up without fail because of how gaijin decided to model certain types of APDS shells
even if we ignore typical WT inconsistencies the amount of spalling from APDS shells of different generations is extreme in its differences, 17pdr and 20pdr APDS will generate similar amounts of spall to a 2pdr 40mm gun while the rarden 30mm will make an amount of spall close to what we see from a larger bore APCBC shell. Its a very weird system which I’m thankful many players will never experience because of the jank.
XM800T doesn’t use the same generation of APDS as the 17pdr and 20pdr but that of what we see on RARDEN (fox gun) so when it penetrates it actually can damage things
Not really, the RARDEN apds doesnt use neither of the “generations” of apds in game, they still use the old model for apds, they still hasnt been hit by DEMARRE’s mace, like all other apds.
Continuing the discussion from Responding To Your Battle Rating Feedback & Final Changes for October 2024:
Funny that you put the fox as an example when they they literally have their own speciall metrics, when it should actually have similar performance to the russian 30mm apds in game if you actually applies the same metric as all other apds.
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This is a biased or deluded statement. I have used 20mm HVAP extensively, it is not good in the slightest. Please, grind out the XM800T and try using just HVAP on it.
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no dude xm800t hvap is absolutely dogshit
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with the modern way of modelling APDS the rarden would actually end up better at range and lose only 5mm of pen at point blank making it act basically identical
Better at range, but you lose like 30mm of pen at 10m…
It doesnt.
spoken to l2lan about it as hes quite knowledgable about the rarden and it realistically wouldn’t have significant changes.
unless you have some performance test documents ill stick with his information
It could be “realistical” but doest correlate with the formula that gaijing uses for all apds, it would be an absolute BS that it pens 20mm more than the 30mm apds from the bushmaster, in game they use the same core diameters as the russian 30mm, it has the same mass and it is just slightly higher velocity, so it will have similar penetration as the russian one, maybe a few mm more, after you aply the same standar as all of the other rounds, and seeing that they rolled back the changes clearely shows that the penetration reduction wouldnt just be 5mm of pen.
I have straight up never had a issue oneshotting them through the front when I have actually had the chance to fight them, the transmission into the engine block shot can sometimes do weird stuff with the round, but functionally anywhere else I’ve shot has either cooked the rounds in the rear storage bins or just everyone in the turret.
Cool, so does a number of other non-solid shot autocannon “AP” rounds, it is still API-T, if it were “SAP” it would have vastly inferior penetration metrics compared to actual “AP” in it’s class, see the M247’s actual “SAP” rounds. Calling it “APHE” makes sense, “SAP” no.
To that same end, percussion was trying to insinuate that some vehicles, namely the ZA-35 and XM246, have some inherent additional value gun wise over every other KDA equipped vehicle that sports APDS, they dont.
Good I see that you admit that you have no actual ground for your arguments to stand on. I will be here if you want to try again.
May just be a personal bias - I was playing them and loving it.
I was just explaining it to you just incase you didn’t know, I haven’t read the argument enough to understand whats going on here.
Okay, i’ve read the argument now.
Marders are largely free kills - Everyone knows why.
The XM246 is considered a better Gepard because it doesn’t face the XM800T and does infact face Germany, which has the most light tanks around that BR. While the Gepard gets APDS and better mobility, the XM246 is far more tanky due to the extra modules it has and has a better turret traverse. I think they’re equal.
The Luchs is garbage, no need to explain.
The Type 87 RCV (P) is wheeled, and has poor handling and gun handling compared to the XM800T. Its also almost never played out.
As for the Wiesel, it doesn’t face Germany, doesn’t have a STAB, and is easily .50’d compared to the XM800T which is .50cal resistant, Not proof, resistant.
All in all, the XM246 should be the same BR as the Gepard, and the XM800T is fine at 8.3 considering it just faces more lights and less heavies.
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Same. Thats just been my experience in killing them, specificly referring to the Merkava 4s that is. I do have a Merkava 3 but I don’t consider my time with it indicative of the 4s and such due to the entire hull re-design and all the changes made.
I do very much so fear for the Merkavas for when they get the same turret basket nerfs like the M1s and Leopards, that void space sometimes seems to save the crew, having a massive basket might end up guaranteeing spall ending up somewhere near the turret crew.
No problem, but yes, I am indeed aware of the post pen meme that is the 35mm KDA API, namely in it’s ability to cause cupolas to implode like a dying star.
Odd then that marders are still played and commonly do well.
Competing nations and lineups are not used in vehicle balancing only performance metrics.
In the case of interior modules, the only tangible difference between both vehicles is that the XM246 carries it’s ammo in the turret while the Gepard carries it in it’s turret basket, both are boxes with 5mm of armor present.
The placement of the guns on the 246 may also be considered better placement armor wise, but the Gepard does have the FCR in the same position.
I will agree that the 246 does sport overall better armor due to it being on a M48 hull and having 25.4 mm RHA all over the turret with 6.6mm HHRA ontop of it, although, this only fully protects it from HMG fire.
However, I do think that the lack of APDS heavily harms the 246 in ground combat situations and it’s vastly inferior radar search volume harms it’s awareness compared to the Gepard.
I’ve seen it do quite well at 7.3, it’s biggest issue is, as stated, its girth.
All RH202 mounts sport the same performance, the XM800T’s M139 mount is indeed better but the base RH202 mount’s performance is already high enough for it to not be a tangible difference. The stabilizer is what matters the most, but that alone I dont see as being enough to put a 1.0 BR difference between the weapons.
Already spoken at length about it’s mobility so I wont repeat that.
Still the case that vehicles are not balanced against what nations they can fight or their lineups, only vehicle performance. Still sports the same standard RH202 mount. It is overall easier to .50 than the XM800T, yes, but thats only out to range, around 300 meters. At gremlin tank ranges where you would be .50ing one of these things, neither’s armor really can do much against .50s, you might bounce at higher angles on the sides of the XM800T, but it’s entire front volume is not going to do much, just like the Wiesel.
As of now, the XM246, to me, either needs the KDA APDS, or needs to get it’s AHEAD styled proxy rounds, the PGZ09 already gets similar rounds at 8.3 as well.
XM800T wise, I would have vastly less interest in it at 8.3 due to the M3 CFV already existing in my 8.3 lineups and being largely a superior pick.
All my Squadmates hate to fight it.
With the other “Rats” there are no such problems or atleast they dont talk about in any way or form like the XM800T
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theres good reason for that significantly higher punch amount.
RARDEN shells are massive compared to most 30 and 25mm peers, being near the same in dimension to the shells fired by the A10s gatling gun, famed for shredding the hell out of whatever it shoots.
it makes sense that the bushmaster 30mm apfsds just about beats it out.
this is now getting off topic so either dm me or end here now that is shown why
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And the one on the Puma is a 30x173mm shell like the GAU-8
theres a good chance that the mauser gun on puma has been screwed over then, its likely not far off from the RARDEN/Oerlikon KCB in its power unless its a very different APDS they are using to model