I agree too low…
just nerf apds too
too high
and a atgm too
Remove the German APDS it has, why should the US cannons get access to German DM-63?
Compare that with the British Desert Warrior and it doesn’t get the improved round used by the Bradley because…“They never used it in service”
Ok cool show me the USA using DM-63…
3 Likes
Admins dont care admins dont care about anything 8.0 br has become unplayable
pray
1 Like
Coming back to this after having grinded Sweden for a bit, I can say I hate the XM800T now.
When I played the thing it wasn’t that great, but again that’s just “it’s OP until you play it”. However I did get some nukes with the XM800T alone in some instances iirc. Now, when facing it with vehicles such as the Ikv 91, man, I’ve never prayed more anytime before. Not even MBTs are safe, one time with the Strv 81 a XM800T simply spammed APDS to my rear and killed my entire crew through the engine, it’s ridiculous.
After having gotten the Strv 101 and 103 it ain’t much of a deal since you mostly snipe them before they get anywhere useful, but man, they do make you panic more than often. If they gave it its LRF it could go up to 8.7 without an issue, it’ll still cause some trouble in 8.3.
1 Like
Show me British Shermans and French Sherman Jumbo using T45 APCR…you won’t because it was an experimental round and likely never issued to even US forces, let alone exported - the reality is that if a weapon system in-game can use specific ammunition, it can be given to it, which is why XM800 uses DM63, or F-4F having AIM-9Js it never used etc.
3 Likes
Good thing that the US received trial rounds of Dutch DM63 way back when.
I do find it quite funny that the marders and gepards were nerver a issue for people, but now that the US has the same gun at the same BRs suddenly the RH202 and oerlikon KDA are overpowered, heck the latter is even missing the APDS rounds but is still considered better than the normal gepard which is laughable and the former sports a ATGM as well as the cannon.
The luchs even gets DM63 at 7.3 while Japan gets it at 7.7, I’ve yet to hear those vehicles get called out for being OP.
Or how about a better comparison since I know people are going to go “but its small and fast it can hide” so can the Wiesel 1A4 at 7.3 and that thing also gets DM63 along with gen 3 thermals.
3 Likes
Because as we all know, the Marder and Gepard are the only vehicles in the game with the Rh202 and KDA respectively
Luchs is unstabilized, RCV(P) is a slow, big shitbus with no reverse speed, no acceleration, and a turn radius the size of an entire gridsquare.
Unstabilized, turret doesn’t traverse to the rear hemisphere, armor can be penned even by 7.62 in some parts and .50cals anywhere, only 2 crew.
The XM800T combines and/or exceeds the best qualities of every single one of these vehicles.
I think it should be down to 7.3 or so only because it will fight more heavy tanks that it can’t pen rather than higher br lightly armored mbts. My experience is that i preform extremely well in up tiers and suck at down tiers.
XM800T add the T
2 Likes
Then tell me, who has ever complained about the Type 87, PGZ 09, Marksman armed tanks etc. You know what I’m talking about and you want to avoid the truth of the matter.
The RCV(P) has a HP/T of 20.3, if you think that is slow you need to get your head checked, to that same end both the RCV(P) and Luchs have a fast enough elevation gear for them to be pseudo stabilized at 48 degrees per second, this is a well known boon, if you are having issues with bumps, elite your crew.
Given this is the same exact mount and sports the same exact elevation gear drives as above, once again, elite your crew or stop whining, that and I am so glad you brought up the fact that the Wiesel is easy to pen as it shows that you don’t know how armor works in this game. Reminder that the Wiesel is a uniform 8mm RHA across it’s entire frame bar it’s roof, which is 6. If you are getting MGed in the roof you somehow failed spectacularly. In the case of the XM800T, you seem to forget that Aluminum Alloy 7039 has a RHA equivalence factor of .50, so all that 25.4mm of armor you see all over the XM800T is only worth 12.7mm, which is easily HMGed and, at close range, penetrated by 7.62mm AP (13mm of pen). So wow, would you look at that, the Wiesel has the same amount of effective armor as the XM800T.
And it is 8.0, not 7.3, or 7.7 like everything else listed, its almost like it’s already at a higher BR due to it’s stabilizer. Yet you and others want it to go up solely due to the DM63 rounds, which, as already explained, exist in a myriad of lower BR vehicles.
I do find it quite interesting as well that you chose to leave out the two marders in your response as well. I wonder why you did this…
That doesnt track though as none of the British 105 guns have HEAT-FS.
And the Desert Warrior example.
I wouldnt say that none, the vickers mk3/11 and vfm5 have heat
That’s a fair point
Because they’re not named “Gepard”. Type 87 is almost identical to it, PGZ 09 is a huge upgrade in anti-air work, the Marksman… exists.
Also, you missed the worst offender of them all.
It is incredibly slow in acceleration and struggles with mild uphills, a common feature amongst almost all wheeled vehicles.
The RCV(P) has an actual stabilizer, the Luchs does not. I haven’t even bothered with the Luchs yet, but my Wiesel 1A4 has NEVER been accurate on the move despite having 56deg/s vertical elevation speed. This doesn’t work when you’re a light tank running around at 50kph+.
.50cals are not exactly rare either, but are far less common outside the USA; the XM800T will meet far less of them.
7.62 AP can only pen the rear, and will do next to no damage to the engine. It is also far more resistant to .50cals, with about half of the frontal area being immune to them even at point blank.
Demonstrably false as I have done above; and in any case the extra crewmember will help greatly.
Yes, that is the result of being better than them. The XM800T also uses the M139 instead of the Rh202, which comes with a large increase in rate of fire; as if that wasn’t enough, the Rh202-equipped vehicles DO NOT have a full DM63 belt, so only 75% of their shots actually do damage and this drops their… effective rate of fire, put it that way, to a little over half of the XM800T’s (600rpm vs 1050rpm), which DOES get a full DM63 belt.
Marder 1A has only HVAP that never works, it’s huge and kinda slow, and limited to 4 terrible ATGMs. The 1A3 adds APDS, useless gen1 thermals, and (unlike the XM800T) it’s still unstabilized and huge. The only redeeming qualities are the large ammo capacity and the front engine sometimes eating someone’s shots, but that requires your opponent to screw up and not just target the near-guaranteed ammo explosion in the turret.
And no, neither get the resupply box so you ARE limited to those 4 ATGMs while in a vehicle that is slower and bigger than the XM800T.
You seem to be inferring that people complained about Gepards, they don’t, just like every other KDA armed vehicle I mentioned. The Gepard has some complaining back when it first came out with pure APDS belts available but that got fixed rapidly.
What part of “marksman armed tanks” did you not understand?
Yes you described an issue present for all wheeled vehicles, yet they sport superior high speed performance, that is not a unique thing.
Yes, and its at 7.7 with that stab, while the XM800T, which got sent up due to it’s stab, is 8.0.
Its got a max of 48 degrees per second vertical traverse speed like every other RH202 mount, literally every vehicle that mounts that gun has identical handling stats bar the MBT-70 secondary mounts.
Thats the same case with the stabbed RH202s as well, if you are hitting your max speed the gun still bounces all over the place, thats a normal thing for most stabs in game.
Imagine my shock that the small section that is completely flat is penetrable, that and you once again completely missed the point I was making, the Wiesel is RHA, the XM800T is not.
The cherrypicking is strong with this one, very nice that you chose to point out the only parts covered with actual RHA on the vehicle, how about we look straight from the front like most engagements and see if there is any actual penetrable locations on either vehicle for 7.62mm AP. (That and I think we both agree that .50 cals shred both vehicles, testing such is a largely moot choice).
Both vehicles retain a strip below the pike which can be penetrated to deal damage to different things, in the case of the XM800T, the ammo, and the Wiesel the transmission. The former will kill the tank and the latter will just disable it.
The only other location that the Wiesel can be penetrated is the obviously exposed gun, but that weapon is designed as exposed and sports no armor. Meanwhile the remaining hulls of both vehicles is frontally immune to 7.62mm AP.
There is a possible small shot trap to kill the gunner on the XM800T through his cupola but that is extremely hard to hit unless you are facing it side on.
250 RPM higher rate of fire is not a “large” increase in ROF, the RH202 already sits at 800 rpm, that is exceedingly quick for a autocannon to begin with. That and as of now, people are advocating for the XM800T to go to 8.3 that is what I’m stating is incorrect.
Cry me a river, gaijin arbitrarily gimps random autocannons across the board with ahistoric mixed belts, get back to me when the bradley stops feeding mixed belts, which its been doing since it got added and physically cannot do as HEFI and APDS/FS require different feed ports.
And is 7.7, not 8.0.
And far superior armor to all of the aforementioned RH202 sporting vehicles including the XM800T, it also gets a LRF unlike the XM800T.
You act like any vehicle mentioned has any chance of surviving a direct hit from an actual proper gun, the marder hull has a chance to deflect stuff due to it’s high existing angle. Most bagel players should know that the UFP of the marder hull just does not obey physics sometimes, and the Marder 1A3 sporting a extra 8mm really helps with that weirdness if you use it right.
But beyond that nothing mentioned prior has anything similar, the Wiesel gets overmatched by most guns, the XM800T is a aluminum box with a pancake of boom under the turret crew, the luchs has volume, but gaijin screwed it over like many vehicles now by making the turret basket part of the turret drive, and the RCV (P) is ok? Its not gotten the luchs treatment and has more crew, but its just tall.
Like every “light tank”, I’d love a ammo box for the bradleys or similar, but gaijin has seen fit for that not to occur.
As stated prior though, these other options exist at lower BRs, the XM800T is already above all of them while sporting many of the same features, its biggest boon is that it is a tiny box. I’m fine with it going up a bit, but at 8.3 it gets supplanted by the M3 CFV and the US returns to having only a single tech tree 8.0 vehicle.
1 Like
When I see complaints about an ~8.3 SPAA being OP, 99% of the time it’s the Gepard in question, even though it is the second worst from the bunch. Chieftain Marksman still takes top prize.
So you are aware of this issue, yet still claim the RCV(P) is as fast as its hp/t would have you believe?
Because:
All of this are things the XM800T does not have to deal with.
Quite a bit over 48, still doesn’t help it remain stable. Driving on the test drive map, on the PAVED ROAD, at 50kph it is already very unstable even when not changing direction and half the shots would miss.
Only over 75kph, which is plenty fast already. Up until then they are perfectly accurate.
Matters not when it has 8mm of it.
Oh so NOW the XM800T has RHA? Crazy.
In the Wiesel, a hit through the transmission cover will turn it yellow. In the XM800T, the front just so happens to be exactly the same armor as the penetration of 7.62 AP, which means it has next to no damage left. A minimal amount of angling, intentional or not, will stop it. Any distance, even just 50m, will stop it.
Not so fast. The Wiesel only has 2 crew and the front is 8mm angled, a kill in just a few hits is near guaranteed. But the XM800T has far more protection and has to lose 2 of its 3 crew, requiring more hits.
So while .50s WILL kill both, it is far harder to .50cal an XM800T.
Not that quick when 25% of its ammo does nothing. That puts it at 600rpm, which is just 50 higher than say… the BMP-2MD’s at 8.7, as a convenient example. That one also has HE in its APDS belt, but a full APHE belt is available.
And you yourself admit that gaijin gimps certain autocannons - the Rh202’s APDS belts have been gimped and the XM800T’s have not.
It fires HVAP with shatters even against light tanks such as the Sheridan. It is a terrible vehicle and 7.7 is way too high.
It does. But that armor isn’t stopping anything above .50cals or very poorly aimed weak autocannons.
I have a clip, too large to post here, of me in my Ho-Ri firing a shot at a stationary XM800T from about 500m away. The shell hit him directly, passed through the two turret crew, and killed neither. He, of course, survived!
A direct hit from a 105mm cannon firing full-caliber AP ammo. Can’t even claim it was shitty APCR or APDS subcaliber shells having poor spalling.
99% of the time you get overmatched or it’s a postwar shell that has no issues going through it. The most useful parts are the engine eating a shot (sometimes they’ll just go through it) or the completely empty rear compartment fooling someone.
It is too big in every dimension, poorly armored, and just too slow. Even if its fast eventually, it takes too long to get up to speed and has a terrible turning radius. Reverse is very slow and the poor steering angle makes it impossible to go anywhere in a short time.
The Bradleys have more than enough ATGMs already. The Marders get 4, and they’re much worse.
these *WORSE options exist at lower BRs
It combines the best features of each vehicle, which none of the “other vehicles” have. For that alone it deserves to be higher than any of them.
You’ll never believe how many 7.7s japan has