Would you play a tank only mode? How do you feel about CAS in ground battles? [(POLL)]

Game Discussion General Discussion
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273

Actually only takes ONE person. And if you followed the thread you will notice all my replies to particular person were flagged… by the same person trying to stir up people again in between our exchange.

This particular member appears to weaponise flagging, i believe 50-60 false flags in a few days. I think they got rattled, don’t you?

And it becomes clear a lot of this issue came from one particular salty person who went on a flagging rampage, the rest seems to be a reaction to this (and if course after checking some flagged content there might be real ones in there too… just not the herbert who lost their “argument” after the poll was pointed out to improve its format and scope.

This poll is slightly hidden after being placed in an odd area (ABOVE general, therefore easy to miss).

274

I believe it takes at least 2 people because I also flagged some comments on other topics and they are still visible.
But yeah, it’s a stupid weapon that the stupid devs don’t even try to remove.

275

One person twice…

276

One of the more humorous flaws of this supposed ‘poll’ is its utter mutual exclusivity:

The poll asks you to comment on your support/lack of support for TO AND your perception of the strength of CAS without an option for “YES on TO and CAS is OK”

The poll is unfortunately plagued with faults…even those beyond the obvious population/sourcing limitations that keep it from being representative.

The false flagging attacks are indeed habitual and showcase the system’s proneness to abuse. Unless substantive action is taken to combat the abusers (say, banning the false flaggers?), you can expect this issue to continue.

We often hear ‘TO is being suppressed and advocates oppressed!’

TO advocates have an obvious motivation to pull a ‘false flag’ hoax: it’d further TO victimhood claims

Given the ultimate toothlessness of most flaggings (most posts remain accessible or are restored by staff), it requires mental gymnastics to dismiss the above possibility–not consider it.

Overall, I hope staff cracks down on the false flaggers. While I can proudly say I am above all that, not everyone is so honorable & mature; they need to face repercussions for their abuses (perhaps even sit in ‘forum timeout’ for a while).

277

CASvocates going for gold in the mental gymnastics.

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278

Seeing what others’ motivations are/can be isn’t all that hard.

You might think of this as Olympic gymnastics or whatever…but to me, understanding another possibility was just easy.

Understanding alternate angles is a key skill for WT gameplay. Comprehending other angles and potential ways the enemy team could attack is central to succeeding in WT.

People who cannot grasp what others could be doing or acting upon are prone to ending up outflanked, as often seen in game & even on the forums here.

279

Mental gymnastics on this forum are the norm.

People will avoid agreeing to others or even changing their way of thinking even when things get changed. When faced with real evidence proving that their point of wiev is wrong, they will attack or find a way to dismiss it.

That is why really good players in this game avoid forums, as they know that most of the people won’t undertsand what changes are really needed or how some things can get abused.

Nevertheless it is fun read some self-praising paragraphs.

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280

The irony of this quip is not lost on me.

As subjective and unsubstantiated as your take is, it does dismiss the poll as a serious representative insight.

As for the whole ‘changed thinking’ bit…I hope you aren’t still mad about me noting your historical stance on bushes and all that the other day.

I’d never claimed your views of the past were current, I just noted what you’d told me before! (Maybe you got confused by tense in translation, idk)

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I have always stated that there are players far better than me.

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That’s immaterial to what is ironic about your comment:

You said the ‘really good’ players ignore the forums entirely…in a thread that has claimed to represent the playerbase

As you describe it, the poll is either:

  • not hearing from ‘really good’ players
  • not representative of the playerbase

…or both of those things.

Your assessment of the situation is not encouraging for the poll.

283

If really good players were to give opinion about the game then most of the people would not like it.

People who took part in the poll are all sort of players good/bad and their voice is the one that matters the most for Gaijin.

Gaijin once asked a team consisting of best players about their opinion of something they were testing and after Gaijin didn’t like the critic, they stopped listening to good players.

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284

As ‘really good’ players is a nebulous benchmark, given how many ways you can look at it, the claim about others’ reactions to such folks cannot be substantiated.

Still, your central claim (the poll doesn’t depict everyone/everything) can stand, as detailed specificity about the ‘really good’ players is needless. As long as some people aren’t taking part, your quip has legs.

A diverse, unbiased & yet still random sample of the population is a good option to try at if you cannot get the whole populace to vote.

Whether this is that is open to debate.

Do you mean that goofy Player’s Council a decade ago or some other speed bump?

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Nope. Please don’t insult really good players.

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286

I was hoping you weren’t citing the Players’ Council, hence the ‘goofy’ tagline for it. That PC was a meme…

Since you brought it up though…what are you referring to?

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What you have to do is balance the CAS correctly. The first thing you have to do is make it cost 70% more points to get a plane and helicopter with AT missiles, it can’t be that by capturing a base and hitting two shots you can get a plane. Second, limit planes and helicopters to 4 per team at a time, it cannot be that you are with a SPAA and only 4 or 5 planes attack you. Third, that during the first 7 minutes of the game you cannot take out planes or helicopters with AT missiles, it cannot be that you are destroyed by a plane in minute 4 of the game without being able to reach or see an enemy. Fourth would be to encourage the use of SPAAs in your AA roll, making it double the points of XP and Silver Lions when an air vehicle is shot down. Fifth, it would be to denerf the HE of the SPAA, since it is painful to see how the 20mm cannons of an airplane destroy another in a small burst, whereas in the SPAA the 20mm cannons are many Sometimes they do almost no damage, and there are even times that not even the 57mm HE do any damage. And sixth would be to give the SPAA a functional sight to shoot down planes, I made a suggestion on this topic, but it stayed in the old forum, I mean, I was completely forgotten.

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288

A long time ago when WWM was tested for first time, only good players took part in tests.

The team that has won the season and consisted only with really good players was asked about their opinion of the mode. The opinion was mostly a critic of how badly made it is and what changes would need to be done. Gaijin didn’t like the critic and after that he stopped listening to good players.

To this day WWM didn’t really change that much and is still won by the same team.

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289

I vaguely remember something like that. Initially, WMM had a lot of promise and even I had interest in it…then they unveiled it.

I wouldn’t class that as a problem with Gaijin listening to ‘really good players’ but instead simply listening…their record is spotty to be generous.

I’ve said 400% myself.

290

It would be nice if it were enough, since the casualties you make against attackers are not the same as against planes, attackers can perfectly kill 5 or 6 per game, as for planes it is rare to have games in which you kill 3 or 4, so that if you dedicate your SPAA to fighting planes you don’t usually get a lot of XP and credits.

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Having finally gotten to top tier I have some minor adjustment on my stance, but it has also confirmed some points too

Points that haven’t changed

The biggest issue in my opinion is the lack of viable SPAA for all nations. Pantsir can deal with almsot any threat that faces a team, but other nations barely have anything. This leaves SPAA a very one sided situation.

CAS from BR1 to about BR10 is mostly fine in its currrent state and there isn’t much I think really needs to change, other than bug fixes (AAMs on helis are completely useless) and rolling out more SPAA to fill in the gaps. Whilst some elements are strong, not a lot is all that hard to deal with

Strike drones need burn in the fires from whence they came.

Points that have changed

Top tier the situation changes.

Jets I still dont think are actually all that strong still, in the skilled hands they can do a lot of damage, but they are also not undefeatable. The helis however are very strong. The ability to spawn in a heli at the start of a match needs to be fixed. It can be extremely devestating and not always easy to deal with. Top Tier helis also have a lot of range and are very hard to kill. Weapon systems like IR guided AAMs are basically rendered useless and the imbalance between nations is obvious regarding their AGMs.

So whilst I dont think CAS jets need all that much of a change. Helis specifically need some nerfs. Mainly in form of SP costs inceases) Especially the Ka-50 and Ka-52. My god, they are broken to all hell.

SPAA needs buffs accross the board except Pantsir which I think actually needs some nerfs.

Heli spawns from game start need to be removed and the spawn cost for helis increased (maybe doubled+) but I dont think CAS jets need any change at all. (It costs nearly twice as much for me to bring a Tornado Gr1 with only dumb bombs than it does to spawn in a heli with AGMs. it makes no sense at all)

Heck, i can spawn in a heli with only AAMs for less than another tank, but i can spawn in a heli with a full loadout including 16x AGMs for less than i can spawn in a Sea Harrier with only AAMs to provide CAP. Even though it has no A2G weapons equipped and is a lower BR. How does that even work

Strike drones still need to die in top tier, but at least SPAA can actually shoot them down (well if you are in the right SPAA at least)

Conclusion

I still dont think we should remove combined arms and I think TO games would essentially result in that to be honest. I think I’d rather see the issues addressed first, rather than a “bury heads in the sand” solution. But now im in Top tier GRB. I begin to understand where some of the calls for this come from. I never really found CAS in low tiers all that strong, and even in the mid tiers and slightly high tiers, it was effective, but not that OP. But I can see in the top tier. there is definetly a major imbalance.

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292

Well what can i say for me I wanna play tank only mode but the map suck and don’t suit the top tier tank game play and I mostly slove the map problem by become a CAS main
if tanks only mode exist all i demand are map that suitable for every tier not CQC cluster F almost everytime

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