0.7 instead of 1.0 would only be a temporary fix, as having less BRs in a single match would make the compression problem much worse in the future
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sounds good but it just means the hypercompressed BRs are still hypercompressed. 7.7 will still see 8.3 and 6.7 still gets battered by 7.3
making ground 14.0 max would be the better fix
Gaijin personal wumao ass sentence.
An issue with switching to 0.7 spread is that br changes would have a larger effect.
This would make fine tuning brs more difficult.
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Well, the reason why becomes obvious if you are familiar with the War Thunder community. It would have a massively negative effect on the views of forum members in the likely event of failure.
The existence of threads like these in the first place is likely partly due to the use of such ±0.7 MM during 2013-2014 period. That was more than 10 years ago. If it were brought back today, even for a week-long test, players would agitate sporadically about it, for the next year at the least. They would say things like “But the queue times were fine”, and advocate for a permanent addition of it to the game.
In reality, what would probably happen? The true result of such a test would likely be disappointing, and indicate the infeasibility of such a constricted matchmaker. Gaijin goes on to keep radio silence about it, player unrest grows, possibly Gaijin releases a news article justifying their decision to not implement the tested system. In any case, it will just serve to increase player frustration needlessly. This is part of the reason Gaijin doesn’t experiment on the standard WT modes.
The reality of the results and the opinion of the players would be far divorced. Just like it is today, it would be after such a test. The vocal minority of players would state their personal experience, anecdotal evidence, saying they personally experienced tolerable queue times. Never has this described the entirety of War Thunder.
I’ll repeat what I often say: The selection of server, the current time, mode, BR, all have a massive effect on queue time. Players who mostly play on the most populated servers, in the most popular modes, at the most popular BRs, during the most popular times, should not use their personal experience as evidence for decompression argument. Actually, nobody at all should use personal experience exclusively! It is simply anecdotal evidence, unscientific and meaningless. Statistics is what we should trust in, and Gaijin has always had the statistics about War Thunder.
Even if the test was successful (meaning queue times were acceptable), permanent implementation of ±0.7 BR would arguably still be a bad idea. ±1.0 BR variance is a very intuitive and simple system. In comparison, it’s harder to understand when you have to use decimals to describe a BR bracket of matches. Why not just decompress the BRs? That would offer the same advantages without unnecessary complexity. Furthermore, this allows for gradual change rather than the “shock therapy” than a ±0.7 BR system would be. This is why balance changes/decompression is what Gaijin is currently doing.
Those of us familiar with the War Thunder community, society, or history, will know that illogical views are often supported nonetheless. In conclusion, the two possible results of this hypothetical test are a success (unlikely), or a failure, and in either case the result would not be what you wish for.
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Propagandized person ass sentence
No matter the changes, someone will always proclaim it’s broken and unfair.
It’s just how it goes with this game that everyone wants to play and unlock, but just not get good at or spend time learning it.
It literally is though. wtf is longer queue times? This game matched me 10 time faster than CSGO and dota 2, a game with concurrent top 2 active player count in steam and I play in region where their server are not supported, how long can this game queue time be worse?
Also compression? what a joke. compression is 7 BR in 1 match, decompression is 5 BR in 1 match. and this 0.7 does not eliminate the possibility for further BR increase, it just eases up matchmaking in general and makes vehicle that used to have BR hell status because of full uptier-full downtier capability differential more playable and balanceable because they aren’t fighting constant wall in uptier and downtier.
No.
Actual BR compression does the same thing, but better. The issue is that Gaijin just doesn’t do that.
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Looooooool
Was referring to when stuff like the J35XS went up from 10.7 to 11.3 alongside a lot of other 10.x vehicles only to go back down to the 10.x bracket.
Show me where 14.0 is now 13.3 again.
Vehicles moving up and down within the BR range is not compression & decompression.
Compression & decompression is when the range changes.
Me when I see around 10.7s.
11.0 MiG-21bis
10.7 J-7D
10.3 MiG-21MF/SMT
10.3 J35XS
10.0 J35D
10.0 F-1
10.0 F-4C
Obviously they are undoing some of the changes, and in some cases making them even worse.
The game in these BRs is returning to pre-decompression.
F-4C should’ve been 10.0 from the start, the reason it went to 10.3 to begin with was because people let it frag them. Some 14 degree per second supersonic jet in the age of dogfight aircraft and BRs… yeah, it’s not going to be bees knees. It’s an ambush aircraft for air RB.
Rear-aspect missile aircraft is the art of controlling engagements with them, and aircraft like Mig-19S and Mig-17PF do that really well, tho 17PF can’t face them anymore.
19S can’t die to any 10.3 in the game when played correctly, and of course 19S can’t die to any non-missile subsonic jet when played correctly.
The biggest threat to 19S is Ayit, and even then if both go sustained 19S wins.
J7D is a massive threat in ambushing, much like the Sea Vixen at its BR, and with guns as well.
Them changing BRs is not “undoing” anything, it’s just changing BRs whether they’re agreeable changes or not. Compression is when the BR range reduces, decompression is when the BR range expands.
J7D to 10.7 is a movement that I disagree with; it is not compression cause the range of BRs doesn’t change. F-35 wasn’t added without 14.3 being added.
Disagree with movements when you feel they’re objectionable; just don’t claim they’re compression/decompression when they’re not.
The only reason it is justified in 10.0 is literally only for 11.3/11.0 jets.
Hunter F.1 or J29F facing against F-4C is just ridiculous.
Shenyang F-5, which is basically 17PF with R-3S would say hello.
Also, just MiG-19s and MiG-17PF? You also seem to forget that the 9.3BR has aircraft like the J32B and the Hunter FGA.9, F.6(NL), which can super hardly compete against the 10.3. And obviously the MiG-17PF (and CL-13B, F-2 Sabre, etc.) should never have been moved to 8.7BR in the first place.
In your universe, maybe yes? but, the community generally calls this just “compression” or “recompression". This has been the case for YEARS. Don’t try to trivialize the ridiculous BR changes that have been going on for years as just “objectionable”.
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@VF21_Freelancers Your post’s trivializing of bad BR changes by incorrectly calling them “decompression” and “compression” is downright insulting.
Stop trivializing bad BR changes via misuse of terms.
Also, I am not about to list all aircraft that out-fight F-4s and F-104s in air RB.
Air RB has many tactics at many BRs. 9.3 is the dogfight BR.
The longer you think about buzzwords like decompression, balancing or powercreep and the longer you play wt you might start to realize that nothing in this game is there by accident.
I mean gaijin is not nearly as stupid as many guys think - i would even claim that they are actually way smarter than any forum participant just because they can work with millions of user data collected in more than 10 years.
What is more likely:
- BRs are set based on plain average user performance and are determined by statistic nerds within gaijin whilst gaijin itself pretends that their goal would be a fair and balanced game play.
- BRs are mainly set in order to fulfil economic goals (like support sales of premium vehicles) or as steering tools for player behaviour (and player progress) whilst the word “balancing” has a totally different meaning for gaijin as their goal is not to provide a fair & balanced game play - and the main tool for balancing and steering is the MM.
I don’t think that queue times play any decisive role (at least since the steep increase of players during covid) - the most convincing argument is the change to 16 vs 16 lobbies.
In addition i would argue that you have to distinguish experiments of BR spread reductions: Nobody knows for sure if they are not testing this in live matches during peak times, all they have to do is to place the biggest noobs in the most difficult to use and at least combat effective vehicles as the 4 guys with a BR 1.0 advantage and you have a BR 0.7 test run.
Whilst i share this and some other views in your essay, your overall message is imho not dealing with the main factor why the “BR 0.7 spread” topic pops us frequently:
Gaijins claims that vehicles facing vehicles (in the same class) with a 1.0 higher BR would have a realistic fighting chance
This is obviously flat wrong as the player skill is way more decisive - so the player in the higher BR vehicle needs less experience to beat a more experienced player in the lower BR - and as soon as both have the same experience level the guy in the lower BR vehicle has no chance.
Whilst i share your anticipation of the result (unfulfilled wishes) the rest seems to be a “Bridge too far” - at least from my pov. Your examples of reliability of individual perception and anecdotal evidence are totally right, but imho your hypothesis has a major weakness:
- You refer to queue times as main decisive factor for player satisfaction.
- You assume gaijin would have any interest in decompression or fair and balanced game play.
If you take a step back and try to look at the whole picture you might agree that queue times in/on less populated modes or servers are totally irrelevant - simply because the game is optimized to cater the needs of minors in actually populated game modes playing on populated servers.
The main goal of the actual BR policy (together with the way more decisive impact of the MM) is to keep less experienced players trapped in the hamster wheel called grind by creating the “dominating in a full downtier whilst being borderline useless in a full uptier” effect.
In addition the MM and the BR are used to create the mix of success and artificial drawbacks to keep the players in the "flow zone" which actually increases the player commitment - you will find various studies confirming this.
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Changing the matchmaker wouldn’t bring any profit. The main driving force here is the grind and the uptiers, which result in slower vehicle progression. This pushes people to purchase premium vehicles or premium time.
I was thinking a more… Gaijin-ish solution. Make an option that if tick it(like night battles or smaller teams battles ) ,it reduces the MM spread…to zero (0) . You play only your BR.
I know it’s not good solution… but i can imagine GJ making something like this instead of properly fixing the MM .
And 0,7 spread would actually work without even tuning the BRs for the most part.
im gonna keep it straight with you chief.
its terrible solution. Find the best vehicle for its BR, disable MM spread, voila, youre now pratically untouchable.
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