Why is the 9K127 Vikhr in game?

Before anything I would like to apologize if I’m posting this in a wrong category, I’m not sure where’s this supposed to go.
Recently I’ve been playing a lot of US 11.3, using the AH-64A, and it’s been a great experience playing except one thing… The Ka-50/52s and Mi-28NMs carrying 9K127s.
Other ATGMs such as Hellfires, AKD-10s, ZT-6s, even Spikes perform very similarly. Vikhrs on the other hand are better in almost if not everything: they unlike pretty much all other top-tier ATGMs can’t be beaten by a simple smoke because they’re beam guided, they’re much more agile compared to any other ATGM, they’re also the fastest and, to top it all off, they also get proxy fuse, which makes them able to completely annihilate enemy helicopters without even a chance for them to fight back. So that brings me to the question, why is it in the game?
It just doesn’t feel like it’s fair towards all other nations. Yeah, you could say: “But that’s how it is in real life”, but we’re playing a game, aren’t we? I did a quick Google search and found out that there are modernized versions of the 9M120 Ataka ATGM, that bring it’s range up on par with the top-tier ATGMs of other nations, which is like the only aspect Atakas really lack in compared to their competition. Honestly, I would much rather have that in the game, even if those modernized Atakas are only one-off prototypes, which won’t ever be actually used on those helicopters.
Well that’s about it, sorry if this feels like too much of a “cry about it” post, I just got clapped a bit too many times, so I had to get my thoughts out somewhere

15 Likes

the entire in-game story of the ka50/k52 is just ridiculous
first the ka50 premium comes in an update named after it on 29 October 2019
they could spawn in with full missile load at the start of the game
and pretty sure only adats and Tunguska existed as 8km+ spaa

and they fixed the op ka50 by adding the ka52 with thermals and air+ground radar
and bigger loadout on 16 March 2020
imagine they tried to fix the leopard 2a7av op screams by adding the new panther prototype with active protection system

and first later new spaa got added. helis couldn’t spawn with full missile load out at the start of the match anymore

also they recently unsuccessfully tried to nerf Vikhrs into the ground during the spaa missile rework because they realized people would be upset if the ka50 had more accurate atgms than the pantsir aa missiles (gaijin tried to tell us beam riders are pretty much worthless )

5 Likes

The so said Realistic and Historical Accurate game War Thunder has to have some downsides or some country dominating a specific aspect,

Because this is what works in real life. We don’t see countries equally balanced to others in terms of military power, actually, in all of them.

About the Vikhr itself, it’s a mid missile. In one hand is good penetrating armor due to the Tandem warhead but it’s bad against soft targets where the missile struggles to active the fuze and explode.

The Ka-50 is also mid, for me personally, glad they added Ka-52 with superior optics you can keep some distance like the counterparts, the ~24.0x zoom is terrible in 11.0 where you face decent to good SPAA.

2 Likes

Cause it is pro-russian game. AGM-114K has 11km range IRL but somehow in game it has only 8km. There is a lot of things that russian equipment works miracly good but IRL well you know it doesnt ;d

2 Likes

I assume you got that off wikipedia
11km is the range when launched from fixed wing aircraft.
For rotary wing aircraft, its 8km. Also the 114K is literally just a digital upgrade to the 114B which is analog, why would it have more range.

8 Likes

The missile is designed to engage vital ground targets, including armoured targets fitted out with built-in and add-on explosive reactive armor, at a range of up to 8 km when fired from a helicopter and 10 km when fired from a fixed-wing aircraft in daytime and up to 5 km at night, as well as air targets in conditions of air defense assets activity.

Thats your 9K127

Vikhr and Ataka are two separate missile systems for a start and not a modernization program like you claim, secondly while it does have extra functionality (like the multi mode warhead) it suffers greatly in penetration for this having 800MM of pen vs everyone elses 1000MM-1400MM. The only real advantage they hold is their speed (cause even 10KM range isn’t unique) and even then the ZT-6s on the Rooivalk are only 70M/S slower while having 1350MM pen and same range. There are many actual complaints to make about the Vikhr including how its multimode warhead is modeled (you select the mode using a switch in the cockpit before launch compared to how it is in game) etc so why make up BS.

To dissect the other part, every helicopter at top tier is equipped with a LWR and most also have MAWS if your routinely dying to Vikhrs its entirely a skill issue as you are obviously not paying attention to your instruments.

2 Likes

About your information from nowwhere.

" The United States also developed AGM-114K in the 1990s, the first of the so-called “Hellfire II” systems. Designed to improve lethality and operate better in a countermeasure or obscured environment, it featured several enhancements over previous models. These upgrades included a new digital autopilot, a larger warhead, an improved seeker, and reprogrammable software used to select different attack patterns in which to approach and strike its target. The “K” variant was also the first Hellfire capable of reacquiring its target after losing its laser lock. Later derivatives improved upon the missile’s warhead, first decreasing warhead sensitivity to prevent accidental detonation, and later adding a blast fragmentation sleeve to increase effectiveness against unarmored targets"

It is clearly not only just a digital upgrade. That is it has more range

Even the 5km at night range is for using the low intensity beam which is less prone to setting off LWRs iirc.

Your own source here says nothing of a motor upgrade which is what would extend range.

Tell me why there should be motor upgrade to extend range ?
You can extend range by managing fuel more efficiently, or the AGM-114B range was limited to 8km by being analog ? That is official data

Literally nothing in there about a range increase, just software and lethality upgrades.

3 Likes

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.

You are aware that there are no physical parts in the Hellfire missile that manage thrust? Its a solid fuel rocket engine, you cannot throttle down or adjust thrust in any way. Once you get a solid fuel rocket going it stops only when it burns out.

Managing burn and thus fuel would require a rocket motor upgrade its not something that can be fixed solely by electronics. What you could argue is different lofting presets or flight modes but then since gaijin doesn’t yet model selectable flight modes you still wont get 11km with the current lofting profile.

how about a more exact guiding system which gives a smother flight path similar how bang bang guidance dramatically reduces range

It’s a question any serious person has been asking since October 2019

There was only the AH Mk.1 Apaches Starstreaks that gave any competition until Gaijin gave PARS 3LRs F+F and added Spikes much later.

I wonder if F+F/Spikes would even have been added to the game if not to give something to combat the Vikhr cheese.

Wouldn’t even be necessary, Beam Riding is so much better than Laser+IOG and 800mm of pen is more than enough with how easy it is to hit weakspots/roofs/side armour

You should have tried Heli PvP.

Yeah but as the information from official sources is (not wikipedia) the Vikhr range from helicopters is 8km and it should be 8km. 1st to be actually that source material is. 2nd to balance ,

I dont care about other features of this missle I dont have problem dodging it but when you play on uptier and your powerful NATO AA has only 8km range max they can hit you from 10km . Yes you still can dodge them by using buildings etc. but source says 8km from chopper so it should be 8km ;d

Other problem is that current in game AA are not balanced aswell. Russians has Tunguska M1 version that has 10km range missle yet NATO’s AA has maximum of Roland 3 (whitch should have 8,5km instead of flat 8km) missle then they have upgrade to VT1. There should be something between and this thing is Roland 5.

" This was a joint project between the then Matra and Aerospatiale of France and MBB of Germany begun in 1987 for a missile with increased speed and range. RM5 was designed to achieve speeds of 1,600 m/s (Mach 5.0) with the range increased to 10 km. The RM5 warhead had an 11 kg warhead with dual detonation modes, able to produce either large, high energy fragments for use against armoured targets, or larger numbers of smaller fragments for use against small targets."

I know I know it is prototype but in 2024 in War Thunder there is a lot of prototype vehicles so why bother an upgrade to NATOS AA on 10.0/10.3 BR whitch they can aquire on tier 4 of modifications

Atakas are trash, rather annoying to use after the atgm update