If you return hull break for hesh, people will ask for it to apply to HE, and then HEAT, and then APHE, and then it just gets applied globally and we’re back to the worst mechanic in the game.
The shell just needs a pure rework with a new mechanic to better simulate the effects, full stop. Hull break is dead and needs to stay that way.
Or you just ignore any complaints and just make HESH actually an effective round.
„Oh no, we can not have people complain, at lesser not more than 50%.“
But when one group complaints, it’s totally fine.
Really curious how APHE, which explodes in a fantasy sphere but the nose still continues onward, has any right to be more effective.
Same with HEAT-FS, which can already overpressure light armor and makes tiny holes into thick plates.
How is that supposed to „hull break“?
HE already completed destroys light vehicles and most heavies, if you hit the right spot, but when HESH dislodges an armor piece the size of a frisbee, then how is that not reason for the vehicle to be destroyed.
HE overpressure makes like no sense, the way it is implemented.
Nobody complains because now you either kill or not kill a vehicle.
But HESH is practically weaponized HE for destroying even heavy armor.
152mm HE can not damage a Tiger IIs 150mm front plate and not even the 100mm lower plate, 120mm HESH can and that’s like half the weight of a 152mm HE round.
Now why would a 152mm HESH round not destroy the tank in one shot, when a 152mm HE to the turret face can?
Overpressure affects all explosive rounds but none deal catastrophic damage to an armor plate, unless the explosive force was able to penetrate it.
HE rounds could also get hull break, even though it will hardly make any difference, since 95% a penetrating hit is going to take out the vehicle anyway.
That’s a great way to kill the game, by reviving hull break that will inevitably end up being applied globally due to complaints that go “oh why cant my HE/AP do that it makes more boom/has more energy than hesh”.
You give an inch and they will always take a mile.
Dude stop with that straw man argument.
This mechanic is just about making HESH an actual effective round against the targets it should be effective at.
And for all I care every round should be a one shot, if it disables the tank.
All it does is make armor penetration and mobility more important than armor and survivability based on crew hit points.
AP should kill tanks just as easily as APHE.
And if it did it wouldn’t break the game it would make it fair.
Haha, that’s what I love about the community. You say the APHE damage is wrong, a fantasy, and exaggerated, and then you get people telling you it can’t be changed because it would break the game’s balance and other excuses like that. The only thing missing is for them to say that a black hole would open up and swallow the entire universe if anything in the damage model is changed.
I think this is a pointless struggle. We’ll never have a correct damage model for all bullets and proper tank balance.
Hull break is not the way to do that.
Well, possibly it is, since both HESH and HE, and even to a lesser extent HEAT, use explosive that acts directly on the armor, generating a shock wave on that armor, causing it to break or form a large crack in the armor if it is thin enough. The main difference is that HE generates that shock wave and fragments mainly to the sides, causing some penetration damage due to the mass of the projectile but less wave since it dissipates on the sides, while HESH generates practically all of its damage forward, which makes them extremely effective against light armor and quite damaging against thicker armor since that shock wave, when projected forward, causes the inner face of the armor to jump into pieces. For this reason it would be fairly correct to add the hull brake for relatively thin armor plates, mainly for HESH and HE, especially those of quite a caliber, apart from giving the HESH their real spalling damage, while the HEAT would have less possibilities of doing hull brake although in very light armor it would still be possible, since nowadays HEAT ammunition is used as multipurpose ammunition to combat infantry and light vehicles, leaving the APDS-FS for heavier vehicles.
i have the impression that thanks to the update the hesh is a little better but still seriously lacks damage and also overpressure because there are times when I shoot in tiger 2 or tiger 1 turrets I only do it from the breech. but it’s just an impression it happens to be the same hesh as before I’ll let you try but for the moment we are still not on the real expectations of a quality hesh.
There’s still the issue, where the damage mode of HESH completely changes, based on the armor thickness hit.
You hit the Tiger II 150mm UFP and the HESH rounds explosive penetration gets so low it can’t destroy the gun barrel.
Aim for the 100mm lower plate and despite the round being further away, it now destroys the barrel easily.
You hit the 185mm front plate → No overpressure
You hit the 30mm track armor on the turret → It overpressure the tank through the hull roof.
I agree the hesh is still bad but already it is a little more playable. But the real problem is the non-existent damage what is the random overpressure. There are times I shoot perfectly in the turret of a tiger 2 or I overpressure it but often in the same place it does nothing and that a simple he of 5kg of explosive would have destroyed it
In hindsight, I still often find myself unable to do anything when hitting Tiger 2 1 and Panther turrets. Then, of course, there is still far too much damage missing, fragments
at least 3 years and it is still broking. When is this going to be fixed?
16 KG TNT directly on AMMO of the T29 on the side with the avre DID NO DAMAGE wtf is this trash.
There are so many bug reports already fix it gajin dammit. I wont be spending any more money.
It hot a pane of glass why would it explode?
If you know who will be full victims the most
You’ll get the answers why HESH can’t perform like they’re supposed too.
im not saying it should explode, IT should however kindly knock the gunner out directly behind it. Which it doesn’t do and thats the issue.
its hard to survive in an M-51 when u have paper armor, medium to bad mobility and get constantly uptiered once u research basically ANY other vehicle in the Israeli tree. I guess its BR is the way it is rn so as to make research fairly possible.
Well the Magach 3’s 105mm HESH is PRETTY DEADLY if u hit it right, besides being slightly inconsistent, but it can still OHK (mostly if u hit turret roof). (in my opinion)
It’s important to note that the two biggest factors that make this game a disaster are the damage model and the map design. For today the M51 in Br 7.3 would have a bad time for essentially what you have said, lack of armor and mobility, but this could be solved (and practically all the problems of the game) improving the damage and making larger and more balanced maps, since for example the HEAT in general cause too low damage and also continually suffer from the damage being absorbed by a module or crew member, preventing the damage from continuing into the tank causing damage to other crew members or modules. On the other hand, the design of the maps, so small and with exaggeratedly covered areas, the only thing it generates is that the key to the game is to get to a certain point on the map as quickly as possible and from there kill everything that moves. All this makes the M51 a difficult vehicle to balance, since it uses ammunition that penetrates 400mm, but in turn generally does little damage, has no armor and mediocre mobility. On the other hand, with the correct modifications the M51 HEAT It could kill a T-54 with the first shot most of the time, and even though it has less mobility than the T-54, it wouldn’t be as serious as that, since with more open and better-balanced maps, there wouldn’t be the exaggerated need to reach certain points of the map before the enemy. It would become a “first-hit-wins” situation.
Another point would be to give the tanks the real ammunition they carried, since the T-54s in the game should have the APBC as their best ammunition, with only the T-54 1951 and the Tiran 4 carrying the APCBC. Only the T-54A (not in the game) could carry the HEAT-FS, and the T-55A could have the APDS. But hey, that’s already trying to achieve the most historical balance possible.
Well, I agree, mostly. HEAT does indeed need better damage but still, hitting ammo usually solves the problem. Most maps are neat, and I dont say that cuz theyre appropriate for fair gameplay, but cuz they force you to play strategically, which undeniably helps making us better players. No pain, no gain. And anyway, if realism is the thing, then why aint real life wars on prepared terrain? Obviously, theres some preparing indeed like trenching, etc. But u cant control an entire battlefield’s topography IRL. I know fun and realism must have a balance, but ig maps arent a first concern. And back to HEAT, it also forces u to play strategically. Obviously, it could have a bit more damage, but if it had more and came way too close to APHE or APCBC-ish postpen damage then M36B2s would have to fight Leopard I’s, I think. And M-51s would be even more uptiered (which ALREADY HAPPENS due to Israel having 2 French vehicles at Rank IV (where the tree starts) (its very annoying to be put to fight Rank VI vehicles just cuz of the AML-90, and also, if u wanna use planes in GRB too, you’ll likely go thru what I went thru: HAVING TO FIGHT A MYSTERE IVA (Rank VI) IN A SAKEEN (Rank IV plane that fights Rank I’s and Rank 2’s cuz its quite BAD for Rank IV (sorry Sakeen)))). So I think theres not that much to do rn. But thx for replyin anyway :D
Almost 2 years later and not a whisper about this issue
