Why is F-4J 12.0!

Machinery of War Discussion Aircraft
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15

I don’t think only F-4J/S has a problem about CM and needs extra care.

  • F-14A
  • F-16A
  • MiG-29A
  • MiG-21Bison
  • F-104S.ASA

Also has 60CM in total

while Kfir C.2/C.7 has even lesser 36CM.

60CM can be disappointed especially when you need to fight against some neat missiles like AIM-9M/R-73 or R-27ER.
but it isn’t only F-4J/S (USN)'s problem, and buffing them down to 11.7 or giving Extra CM exclusively to them is shameless.

Yeah, This is some annoying and confusing point when discussing between F-4J(USN) and F-4J(UK)

Even Gaijin themselves have confusion about that and gave them the same BR on ASB too! Xd

I just wonder
if OP’s claim is flawlessly right and F-4J(USN) need to be 11.7
then should F-4J(UK) goes down to 11.3 and tied with F-4E?
(Because Skyflash is literally AIM-7E-2 but has slightly wider fuse radius)

2 Likes
16

It has fewer but better missiles, on a more potent platform. Only the radar is a downgrade but still works well with R-24R since it has IOG (and datalink?)

17

On paper, yes, but cant dismiss the:

  • performance of the R-24Rs (or even the R-24Ts)
  • the fact it has all-aspect IRs vs the rear-aspect on most F-4s,
  • the IRST
  • higher speed
  • Large Calibre CMs

Whether they are 1 for 1 equal is certainly open for debate, but I dont think the Mig-23ML/MLA/MLD wouldn’t specifically suffer from being a higher BR either. Especially also given their lower BR in SB, the argument for many of the F-4s still being 12.0 gets even worse.

Main handicap I acknowledge for the Mig-23s is the radar auto-swapping (need a setting to disable that) and limited available control imputs needed for manual wing control

18

In the current ARB situation, flight performance isn’t that meta, and losing 3 SARHs for a better FM isn’t the best trade imo.

1 Like
19

I will not deny that R-24R’s are amazing, but you only get 2.

Shit front aspects tbf.

Yeah its fast asf but you can’t run from every problem.

20

I agree, I’m not saying the mld is superior to the F-4J.
Im saying it should be at the same BR, so about equals with different capabilities/playstyles

1 Like
21

My general experience is that if you wait to fire until the last possible moment and hte target isnt pre-flaring, its nearly a 100% guranteed kill with them. At least that is why I Always pre-flare in a head on vs a Mig-23MLD in SB in both the FGR2 and F3

1 Like
22

In my opinion its not 12.0 worthy, but it also isn’t 11.7 worthy.

23

Yeah, definetly a 11.85 worthy jet.

2 Likes
24

Thats why decompression is so needed but gaijin wont listen

2 Likes
25

Gaijin Logic

  1. sees problem of compression
  2. buffs US/USSR jets mindlessly which creates even more compression
  3. Minors suffer
  4. Then they will buy some fancy premium jets for grind US/USSR
  5. $$$$$$
26

F-4S (better) image

27

Well, I was bit lazy for find devblog image of F-4J

Fair, Okay, going to working on it
Edit: Fixed.

28

This doesnt affect only minor nations, affects many planes across the board

1 Like
29

Maybe affects both vehicles of minor nations and Minor vehicles in major nations.

30

I don’t get your meaning. But for example, the su-27 both sealclubs HARD in 12.0 to 13.3 matchmaking and suffers immensely when fully uptiered. Now the F-14B for example, is meh even in downtiers and completely garbage in uptiers.

31

I was thinking about F-84F and F9F compared to F-86A when writing that comment
Sorry for being ambiguous at that moment. :'(

Anyway, back to original topic,
I don’t think F-4J(USN) need to go down to 11.7 because of ‘lack of wing slats compared to F-4S’

32

imo the f4s/j need the extra flares the most rn bc they dont really fire their CMs in a smart way, they just spam their flares upwards

33

If the F-4S could receive aim9L it would be fine at 12.3 like the EJ kai

34

yes, the f4s could carry the same pods the av8a gets, i can carry 4 of them giving the f4S 960 CMs + the 60 in the airframe, you wouldnt even loose anything important by carrying the flare pods, you would only loose the bombs, i see that as a win-win scenario